KawasakiTrax Community
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: JLane7071 on January 23, 2016, 10:50:10 AM
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Hi everyone, I just got my first project sled and I have a few questions, its a 79 Invader 440 L/C and its been sitting in the woods since 2001. The engine does turn, but i instead of trying to run it I bought the gaskets and plan on tearing it down and rebuilding it first, the tracks in good shape as is the rest of the sled. My questions are regarding the oil pump and water pump, can these be rebuilt? I can't find any kits for them and I want to make sure they are up to snuff beforehand while I've got the engine out of the sled. Any help is appreciated.
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Water pump - yes, these can be rebuilt. I understand the Flying Dutchman out of Oregon does these repairs.
Oil pump - It is my opinion, unless the sled was abused, should be OK. If you try to disassemble, be careful. There is a coating on the barrel of the pump that if scarred, will cause the pump to leak internally. Unless a shaft is actually broken, if the pump fails, it will put more oil into the engine than it needs, so I am not concerned about running a failed pump. I have attached a photo of the pump barrel. This is from a pump that must have had grit and wore out. Oil consumption from this pump was high and evident by the large smoke cloud it left behind.
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The problem I had with my oil pump was I think the seal on the actuator shaft was so worn that all the oil from the tank was dripping out through it. Made a big mess on the floor before I noticed what was going on. And you can't find those seals anywhere. (At least back when I was doing this I couldn't)
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If you are sure that oil leaked out past the input shaft then you would probably be better off finding a pump from another engine. If, and I know that this is a big assumption, if the pump always had clean oil in it none of the parts should ever wear out.
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Has anyone here attempted to rebuild a water pump themselves? And thanks for the input guys.
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I attempted it. I started to press the bearings out with a 12 ton press, but I was pressing so hard I thought the whole thing would shatter, and the bearing only budged a little. I didn't know how I was going to get the mechanical seal out, or where I would find another one. I heard about the Flying Dutchman on this forum, and I will gladly send him the pumps from both my Invaders and leave the job to someone with that specific experience and resources.
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The problem I had with my oil pump was I think the seal on the actuator shaft was so worn that all the oil from the tank was dripping out through it. Made a big mess on the floor before I noticed what was going on. And you can't find those seals anywhere. (At least back when I was doing this I couldn't)
I have had several oil pumps with this issue. I always fill them with oil on the bench and leave them overnight to check for leaks before installing them. I searched for a replacement seal but couldn't find one the correct size.
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I just don't want to put all this time and effort into the sled and first trip out have the motor blow over something stupid.
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The first pic is how it looked when I first got it home, I started cleaning it up, the seats getting professionally redone, I pulled the engine and am rebuilding it down in my basement. I still can't get over how small that 440 looks under the cowling of those invaders lol.
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I decided that since my gaskets and everything won't be here until Wednesday-ish I might as well clean the engine up good and make it look nice. Another question for you guys, anyone ever port their jugs to match the gaskets? Ive done it on car engines but never done any of these snowsled engines, I noticed the exhaust port is noticeabally smaller than the gasket, I have read its recommend on the manifold but what about the port itself? And if you have what kind of difference did it make?
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Lookin' GOOD! Take your time and get it right now, and you can enjoy many trouble free miles. These sleds were very reliable when new....most all of them from the late '70s- early '80s were, from all of the manufacturers. But, we have to contend with the 35 plus years since then.
Polishing the rough surface of the factory castings has to help some. I cleaned up the roughness on my Invader cylinders many years ago. I don't have a clue how much (if any) it helped.
Absolutely avoid getting too close to the inner chrome liner on the cylinder. Without the proper high speed grinding equipment, it's possible to chip the chrome lining.
I wouldn't spend a great deal of time, other than smoothing the surfaces, especially the exhaust side. Matching the exhaust port dimension to the gasket, and the y pipe would certainly help.....but the gains that come from having the carbs very clean, the clutches perfectly aligned, and all of the bearings in the drive train in good shape probably outweigh any tiny gains from that precision matching of the ports.
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Well I was just looking at "The Instigator" and I got thinking I'd like to build it somewhere along those lines, and I went out to look at the clutch and found out I have the comet 102 C with yellow spring? Anyone know how these clutches are? I'm sure most of you guys probably do I'm just wondering because I know they have purple springs and others that change the engagement?
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The Comet is easier to fined parts for.
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So I was looking closer at the clutch and found that it was stuck, so I gave it a good bath in degreaser and then tore it down, gave it a good soak in some WD-40 and started working the plate back and forth so now shes back together and good as new :), any recommendations on that spring? I know they say it will change the engagement speed and I want good balance between lowend and topend, do you guys think that the setup I have would be a good setup?
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Well I managed to gets some new hardware from work and had to see what the motors going to look like, still cleaning and cleaning luckily this sleds cleaner then the old cars and trucks I'm used to working on. But all in all I want this sled to look like a near showroom condition toy but ridden. But here's where I'm at on it as of now.
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Looks like progress!! You will have a little trouble getting the motor back in with the clutch on it.
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Just a little grease, and it should fit through. Push hard! ;D
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Lol well update for this afternoon/evening the new fuel pump so I started putting together new fuel lines, I had some 1/4" id stainless tubing and some 1/4" blue fuel line, I'm waiting on my filters but here's what I've got so far.
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Anyone got any tips or tricks to pulling the flywheel on one of these? I've broken 2 pullers so far. :(
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I made my own puller. I used a piece of 1/2" plate steel, drilled 3 holes for the flywheel bolts, and one large hole in the center for a big fine thead bolt. I put a fine thread nut between the plate and the flywheel (was going to weld it there, but never got around to it...). Make sure you use the highest grade bolts you can get!
Tighten it down as tight as you can without breaking the bolts, give it a smack with a big hammer, then repeat. Sometimes if they don't come off right away, I'll leave pressure on it and let it sit overnight. This method hasn't failed me yet!
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I think that the only things I would add to gix's advice is that with the tension on the bolt, the hammer blow should be dead center and aligned directly in line with the center of the crank shaft. And, a shot of PB Blaster never hurts.
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Also, grease the threads of the large center bolt, and where it contacts the end of the crank.
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Wow all I can say is thank god I went through this forum, I finally just got the flywheel off and I'm glad I didn't try running this sled beforehand, the mag side crank seal was in 2 pieces with the spring nowhere to be found :/
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Question, I was under the assumption that the sled should have a points and condenser system? This is what was behind my flywheel.
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That's the stator. It's part of the CDI system.
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Wow all I can say is thank god I went through this forum, I finally just got the flywheel off and I'm glad I didn't try running this sled beforehand, the mag side crank seal was in 2 pieces with the spring nowhere to be found :/
Seems like only a couple early Drifters had points?
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Question, I was under the assumption that the sled should have a points and condenser system? This is what was behind my flywheel.
It's electronic ignition, no points. The coils on the left are for the ignition system, the coil on the right generates power for the electrics.
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Alright so that being said and since I don't really know much about this type of build, before the teardown I had fairly weak spark any ideas on what to check?
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OK I got the engine in and I got it to run for a couple of seconds but now nothing, every so often it will sputter but thats after 15 pulls or so. Any ideas? There's fuel in the carbs and it has bright blue spark and good compression. I'm stumped
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Also I cleaned the carbs and set them back to factory settings, 6.5 turns out on the idle screw and 1.5 turns out on mix screw, this is what I found online, does this sound right?
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OK I got the engine in and I got it to run for a couple of seconds but now nothing, every so often it will sputter but thats after 15 pulls or so. Any ideas? There's fuel in the carbs and it has bright blue spark and good compression. I'm stumped
How does it react when you prime it?
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It hasn't made a difference, I've replaced the lines, the primer pump and the fuel pump is pumping fuel, I don't get it
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My sense is that if you have primed the engine and it will not start that either the engine is flooded, there is no spark under compression, or the exhaust is restricted. We have had spark coils that spark when the plugs are out, but not when installed. We have also had mouse nests in exhaust pipes that would not allow the engine to pop more than a few times. Is your spark coil new or old? Have you tried to start with exhaust disconnected?
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I'm gunna try the exhaust right now
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OK so I tried the exhaust it seemed to help some it lets out a few more pops but not enough to actually keep running, I guess next step is going to be coil, then if that don't fix it the motors coming back out... Ugh I want to ride so bad...
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Could it be a timing issue? I noticed the stator and case had marks from the factory and that's how I lined it up, I meant to take a picture before hand but got wrapped up in the moment. :/
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The timing marks are pretty obvious. I will see if I can take a photo of one of the engines in the garage.
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Here is a photo of the timing mark on the crankcase. I did not have a stator plate in the garage to photograph.
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It was bothering me that I couldn't find any stators. Ended up I was looking in the wrong box. Here is the mark on the stator.
So a couple of questions:
1. Is the gasoline fresh? What octane?
2. What plugs are in the engine? What is the plug gap?
3. What are the compression measurements?
These sound like pretty basic questions, but we have found that 10 times out of 10 the problem is a basic problem that we have either overlooked because it was so obvious or was masked by another small problem.
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Compression was 130 psi in both, I was told part of it is fuel being pulled through the pulse line from the pump? Sound right to you guys? And a mix of bad gas and carbs are f***ed, she's getting good fire. I pulled the carbs and everything, gave it time to dry up, put a shot of fresh gas in the ports and she fired right up, no problems.
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There is something peculiarly intoxicating about the fragrant aroma of two stroke drifting in the winter air. Glad to hear that you have ignition.
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Tomorrow she will have the new fuel pump installed and a "fresh" pair of 38mm mikuni carbs, I read the sled should have 36s but mine measure 38?
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So I found some white sludge in my fuel pump? Any ideas?
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White sludge = water