KawasakiTrax Community
Tech Information => General Help => Topic started by: Sledhead60 on March 21, 2015, 07:10:47 PM
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I am planning to upgrade my 1979 Invader 340 to a 440, and was wondering if the y pipe and/or muffler from my 340 can be used on the 440.
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I have not actually done it, but I am pretty sure that they are interchangeable.
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Sounds good! I will echo mswyka. A post a few weeks ago prompted me to look at my '79 parts manual, which showed, to my surprise, that both the 340 and the 440 Invader shared exactly the same part# for the y-pipe and the tuned muffler.
This had to be a slight, economic compromise on Kawasakis part...hard to imagine that this arrangement was perfect for both motors, although they did share the same 7800-8000 RPM power peak....but it obviously worked well.
Without looking, I know the '81 440 used a new part # for the tuned muffler. I think that the '80 Invaders did also. Kawasaki changed to this slightly improved design...it was probably only good for a horsepower or two, but enough that Kawasaki felt it worthwhile to make the change and add to the "headaches" of part inventories, etc.
That '80-'81 pipe is probably the "hot set-up" for any stock Invader. 8)
You have probably already thought of a couple things to consider in making this switch from a 340 to a 440....The drive clutch was identical, except for the fact that the ramps for the 440 carried a few grams more weight, in the form of tiny washers, to account for the greater torque from the 440.
And, the gears were significantly different for the 340 versus the 440.
I have been a bit amused by a chart in the service manuals for these sleds...This chart shows a cool breakdown for various gears. The 440 Invader used 21/39 gears, which was supposedly good for a "theoretical" top speed, at 8000 RPM, with the clutches at a .96 overdrive, of 88 mph.
The 340 came with 18/37 gears...good for a "theoretical" top speed of 79 mph.
I don't know what anyone else thinks, but a stock 440 Invader would have to be incredibly well dialed in to achieve a true 88 mph on radar, or GPS...never mind what the speedometer says...perhaps slightly downhill, and with a good tail wind. ;)
Pay no attention to the folks on Craigslist with a '74 something or other that can go 110 mph! LOL.
But, the gearing comparisons between the 340 and the 440 remain valid..
I have read on here several comments from owners of 340 Invaders...how much they admire how quick these sleds are...certainly the 340 doesn't have the horsepower or torque of the 440, but the lower gearing of the 340 certainly contributes to its "quickness".
Good luck with the conversion to a 440....if you retain the stock 340 gears, that will be one quick Invader from 0 to 60! :) :)
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Good thoughts, and yes the 1980 pipe offers a nice mellow sound. Something was different from 80 to 81 to accormodate the changes that were made in the front frame. The 81 has the tubular arms over the ski spindles to brace the outside top of the belly pan. The 80 version muffler will hit the 81 frame if not shimmed up slightly.
My personal opinion is that it is not a good idea to run 340 gears with the 440 engine. You will run out of speed long before you run out of HP. It works well for the 340 - which only runs about 50 HP - and helps to make this a fun little sled. The 440, when tuned well could even run steeper gears.
If you have the option, keep the 340 and build another 440. They make a fun pair.
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Gotta chime in on this... I have read somewhere (I believe a Kawi manual) that rated the 340 at 60 hp. Pretty sure, I remember seeing that number listed somewhere. Aaen Dyno figures show a stock 440 at about 68. As far as the top speed on the Invader 440, I think you might be surprised. In 1978 or 79 (can't remember) Kawasaki had races up here in Maine... endurance racing and in the article Kawasaki was claiming 86 mph on the straightaways (stock sled with no studs). Some of the older KawiTrax guys on here probably know the race I am speaking of... like 24 hours non stop racing... different drivers. Anyway, just for information purposes... I raced my Liquifire with Invader heads this winter 1000ft on ice and hit 82.1 mph (also radar gun confirmed). The sled was still gaining after 1000ft. I was also using the stock single Liquifire pipe, which I am told was not as "hot" as the later Invader pipe. I see no problem believing that I fresh 440 Invader on a frozen lake could see 85 mph (not on the dream-o-meter either). Just my two cents! ;D
Note: I also noticed that my slides were getting hot on my Liquifire after a few runs on the ice. I suspect that a few extra wheels along the rails would free up a few more mph.
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Wait till' I get my 80' Liquifire dressed up with a 4/6 engine and Polaris clutches next season! Look out! lol
88 mph <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< BYE BYE :P
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FUN discussion! Let me add a tidbit or 2 to keep it goin' since the snow has all melted, at least for me. :'(
If you folks have never seen this, there is a YouTube video of the 24 record breaking run that 2 new Kawi Invaders set in Feb. 1978. Can't be too far from you, Tory...Scarborough Downs in Portland, Maine.??
Fun 16 minute video of the record breaking run.
If I had a clue how to post it on here, I would.
You will just have to Google video. "Invader on ice 24 hour snowmobile world speed and distance record"
The pit crews were able to change the tracks in 8 MINUTES!! not because the tracks needed it, but because the carbide studs were wearing out!
If you haven't seen this...enjoy 8)
And yeah, Tory...I'm one of the "older" guys on here...old enough to remember this..LOL
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This was the race I was talking about in my above post. ;) Cool video.
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I live 45 min away from the Fairgrounds.
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Sorry, I was wrong! 90 mph and average lap speed of 70.5 mph.
This would have been the 78' Invader w/the lighter fiberglass hood. Also looks like they were running the recalled grouser bar tracks. Yikes!
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Yep....pretty cool stuff. Wow, those crews were pretty good. Not surprised they were able to squeeze 90 mph out of an Invader.
I wouldn't have had a chance... :)
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I had a 1978 340 Invader back in 1980 and on a open road that was packed down I had the nerve to look down for a glance at the speedo and it said 80 mph. Whether it was accurate or not I know this sled had the power to reach this speed and maybe more. So I know a 440 should be able to reach a speed of 90 mph.
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Agreed. :)
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Tory, if I get up that way one of these days will have to meet and talk kawi talk. Glad someone agrees with me about these old sleds. Remembering back in my service days in the Air Force and going to the Soo I-500 races with that 340 Invader, what a blast it was. You could watch the race and then go have lunch, fill up the sled at the gas station and head back for some more fun. Met some great folks and saw some awesome sleds. I went in 1982 and that's when I seen the Interceptor for the first time. I was in love with that sled and said one day I would have one, so keep me informed when you finish one of those restored Interceptors. :-* :-*
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I had a 1978 340 Invader back in 1980 and on a open road that was packed down I had the nerve to look down for a glance at the speedo and it said 80 mph. Whether it was accurate or not I know this sled had the power to reach this speed and maybe more. So I know a 440 should be able to reach a speed of 90 mph.
I've had my 78 & 81 Invaders up to 80 mph a couple times and they were still gaining speed but there is no place around here to really see what the top end is. I think my 78 will get there a little quicker.
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One of the pieces of data we have is the table that Bob published in the 2012 Kawasaki Calendar. That chart lists the 340 at 53.5 HP and the 440 at 67, 68 or 70 depending on the year - 78, 79 or 80. That would make sense, since they run the same rpms, it really comes down to the mass of fuel and air that can be pushed through the cylinders. All other things being roughly equal, that becomes the difference in volume of the cylinders. Curiously enough, this chart shows the 440 intruder at about the same HP, but the stock Intruder runs the same gears as the 440 Invader.
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Unfortunately, back in my service days in the Air Force... there wasn't any snowmobiling to watch at Travis A.F.B in California! I used to take the hour drive to Lake Tahoe (beautiful area) and check out all the snowmobile rentals in winter. It was always raining where I was stationed, but I still read snowmobile magazines! LOL. 1995 era. ;)
I had a Liquifire shipped to the barracks for me to work on in my spare time... guaranteed I was the only guy in my building with a Liquifire chassis stuffed in my closet. When it came time for inspections I made damn sure my locker was locked!!! :o
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That makes some sense regarding the Intruder gears matching the 440 Invader. If the Invader achieved 88 mph at 8000 RPM with those gears, the Intruder, with it's power peak at 7000 RPM, would achieve 77 mph with those same gears...sounds reasonable. Surprised the HP was really that high from an Intruder.
I was almost sure the 340 Invader was under 56 HP. Back in the late 70's the cross country racing circuit at the time had a 56 HP limit. I distinctly remember John Deere had a "cross-country" kit available for their 440 Liquifire. It was a de-tune kit, designed to drop the 440 down to the 56 HP limit...if I remember correctly, it included different cylinders, heads, and clutch parts to work with the new de-tuned motor. JD didn't have any 340 Liquifires from 1980 and up...maybe a couple prototypes....so they had to de-tune their 440.
I thought the 340 Invader was good to go for that 56 HP rule. Jay Sperry certainly didn't do too badly with one in either the 77-78 season or the next year. I think he finished 2nd in total points, kinda a lone wolf effort against scads of Polaris TXLs, and others...
Yamaha's first SRV came out mid season as an 80 1/2 model, and they participated with it for 2 or 3 years on the CC circuit because it came stock with 56 HP. About 1983 ?? the rules must have changed, because Yamaha upped the HP to about 60 for the SRV motor.
Then Kawi, Deere, Scorpion, Arctic Cat bailed or went bankrupt...and the darned TXL Indy's ruled the CC races :'( :'( :'(
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There are a couple of things to get the speed out of the 340.
Just to understand the 340 was 56 hp stock. The rules stated that you had to have 55 hp to participate in the cross country. Kawasaki made a kit that consisted of a new pipe and some clutch weights that were available. It should be noted that you can add the intruder pipe for 2 additional horsepower.
Each pipe was good for about 2 mph. On a hard packed mile, you could hit 82 with stock gearing and pipe. The 55 mph pipe would drop 2 mph and the intruder pipe would add 2 mph up to 84 mph.
To get additional speed you had to add rpms. The way to do this is to tighten up the rear spring, I increased the rates to bring you up to 8800 RPM. The best gearing was to increase final drive gearing to improve off the line as well as the additional RPM's to pull on the top end. My racing top speed was 92 MPH with the 340. It would beat the Kawasaki reps 4/6 LTD on the top end. He wanted to buy my sled which I refused.
Sunday racing with this sled would bring Monday morning sales results at the dealership!!!
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Very cool information.. 8)
Welcome to the site.
Please share more sometime.
Did you ever try the Winnipeg to St. Paul race?
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I believe this is the 1978 Winnipeg to St. Paul race:
# 49 Robert Heinen, Avon, MN
# 147 Dave Corbett, Winnipeg