KawasakiTrax Community
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: IraqvetUSMC on February 27, 2016, 02:07:07 PM
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So last winter my sled quit on me after an hour of riding. I found out the inner carb fuel bowl drain plug was very loose and the seal was blown causing it to leak fuel, however when I got around to actually figuring this out the snow was all gone for the season. So over the summer I got her running and adjusted the air screw out to compensate for the warm weather. So the other day we got 15" of snow and we haven't had crap all winter so I was pumped to get this bad boy out. Well I made it about 20ft out of the garage and buried it in a snow drift right off my drive way. I finagled it loose and spun it around. I tried to go and realized the track was not moving and the sled was smoking like a freight train and loading up. So needless to say I had to drag the thing back in the garage (back still hurts lol). I adjusted the carbs to book spec and it started up and smoked less today but it doesn't want to stay running at 6 turns out for idle so I had to screw the idle screw in a few turns. Also I noticed the exhaust is just full of oil. The oil coming out of the exhaust has created a puddle under where the sled sits and where the Y pipe is is all wet so what I also did was back the choke cable lock nuts all the way out and adjusted the cable screw in as far as it would go so that the choke had no way of being slightly open. I did notice the clutch is engaging today which it wasnt after it loaded up the other day, I am assuming that it was because the engine rpm'swere not high enough from running to rich. We may get some more snow next week and one more go around because I am ready to give up on this beast and scrap it haha.
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Hang in there...we got about 6" here in Delphi. My sons and I finally got out to ride a little bit for the 1st time this winter.
In all my years of sleddin', this may have been the worst conditions I have ever ridden....unbelievably heavy, wet snow. It felt like traveling thru mud. Wednesday evening riding around the wet snow falling just created a mess on our helmet face shields....after about 30 seconds, you had to wipe the shield with your glove to be able to see.
Sadly, a guy suffered a fatal accident about 10 miles North of me when he was going thru some fields and didn't see a ditch.....tragic. :'(
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Hey buddy how are you doing? I figured you would chime in lol. Thats sad to hear about that guy, definitely have to be careful when your out on a sled in unfamiliar territory. I know my friends who sled and ride out of town have paths that they scout out first and go slow to learn the land before riding fast. So my sled was running rich again before it died and i set it back to 1.5 turn out on the air screw in my garage and seems to be better but haven't rode it yet. Maybe you can help me on the choke settings, I undid the lock nut and screwed the choke cables in the all the way down position so as to make sure that the choke wasn't partially open causing the excessive rich smoke, I think i one the correct way as my owners/operators manual just says to adjust for slack but isn't real descriptive. Book says to turn idle out 6 but thats to low so I am going to turn back in 3 turns. both plugs have spark so its not a spark issue. Is there any other settings that might be helpful like a needle clip setting or something. I think its the right inner carb thats rich because the plug is wetter. Also thats the same snow we got wednesday that gave us 15" and we had 10ft snow drifts. People had to be rescued from their vehicles because they got stuck and snowed in.
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Where the choke cable sits on top the carb you should have 1/16 of an inch or a little more of slack so the plunger is seated unless the lever is up to choke it. I had just set mine at 1/16 of an inch and the lever on 1/2 choke was almost to much choke but then the temp was in the 30's & 40's all weekend.
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Thanks for the reply. I am assuming the 1/16 gap is between the bottom of the cable insulator to the top of the adjusting screw housing once the cable is pulled up?
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With the choke off grab the cable, it should be about 1/16 " free play before the cable moves the plunger in the carb. This makes sure the choke is doing nothing unless you want choke.
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Ok thanks. This sled is producing lots of oil coming out of the exhaust once it runs for a little bit it leaks oil after its shut off out the exhaust pipe and puddles on the floor. My Y-pipe is pretty soaked in oil as will and has sprayed a little oil on the engine from it while it was running. Not sure what would cause this unless the injection pump is messed up and internally stuck open?
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Here are a couple pics that may help. In the 1st one, slide the rubber boot up on the choke cable to get it out of your way. If it's stuck, a squirt of WD-40 will free it up.
Now pull the cable up and down with the choke lever off. Watch the metal ferrule on the end of the cable...where the screwdriver is pointing....it should move up and down very easily at least 1/16 inch. ...absolutely as free as can be. ...If you continue to pull up on the cable you can feel when the choke plunger spring is resisting. As long as you have that free play, your choke plungers should be fully down, and not contributing to running rich.
In the 2nd pic...that is the idle mixture screw...don't hesitate to back it out more than 2 turns counterclockwise from being lightly seated. That lets more air in at idle speed....sometimes you have to play with them...try to keep both carbs close to the same. On warmer days...say 30 degrees, I often had to back those screws out at least 2 1/4 turns. Each sled is probably slightly different.
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Good pics, thanks. I had them blacked out quite a bit but then set them back to 1.5 turns out for stock and set the idle 3 turns from the seat. Sled will not stay running at 6 turns out like book says. 3 turns keeps it running. How prone our these old sleds to loading up if not cleaned out? I ask because a few times during the summer I started it for a minute to hear it run and then killed it. Wondering if the engine was loaded up and I hit to deep of snow right off the get go.
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So I may have found the issue tonight. I pulled the slides out of both carbs to check the needle clip positions and when I pulled the inner slide apart I found a small wire strand of the throttle cable came uncoiled and was bunching up. I think it was causing the slide to hang open the whole time which would cause flooding of that carb I would think. Hopefully I am right on this one lol.
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Ok so that was not the issue. Sled did run but the snow we got was not enough to steer the sled, it had nothing but push so I turned it around and put it back in the garage. It did eventually load up and die again. The right cylinder is flooding as the cylinder has oil gas blowing past the silicone seal the PO did on the Y pipe and the oil/gas is on the outside of the cylinder. I am assuming at this point I have something wrong with the float in the inner right carb. I ddi check engine compression and both cylinders are at 125 psi both, I am assuming that this is good compression for this old sled.
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I may add that when the track is suspended off the ground the sled runs great especially at full throttle and half throttle. I can go from half to full with no hesitation, this thing flys.
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disconnect your primer hse and plug it. Could be sucking fuel past the primer and causing the rich condition. Seems lik they only last about a year or so and they have problems with the plunger and check valve.
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Thanks Jim. I have the carb apart and I am going to clean it thoroughly and make sure the float height is correct and I believe the book spec is 24mm. I am assuming that is the original 37 year old choke plunger on the carb so I am sure that small seal on the bottom is not very effective any more.
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Jim, how do you go about plugging the choke hole after removing the cable from the carb? I could screw a cap or plug in there but since the passage is at the bottom then I don't see how you could plug it off. My plunger seal
has the indentation on inform where it sits but it's not cracked or anything
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I believe Jim was referring to the primer hose not the choke cable.
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Which one is the primer hose and Jim mentioned the plunger which the choke has a plunger so now I'm confused lol.
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Ok so primer hose is the two small hoses that go towards the top of the carbs I am assuming but since they are tied together how would removing 1 line from the carb help and not cause an issue with the other carb or could I eliminate the prime hose from both carbs and cap it off at the fuel pump?
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The primer if hooked up correctly will have a T in the line by the fuel pump that goes up to the primer. From there it goes from the primer to a T in the line that runs between the carbs. In the past I have cut the line just before the T in the line that runs between the carbs and put a pin in the line to plug it both ways. I used a busted drill bit that fit the line ID and put both cut ends of the line on the pin. Everything was still in tack but the line did not allow anything to move in it. Before you do this if you can, when the sled is running watch for any sign of gas or air moving in the lines and the plunger leaking gas around the shaft.
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Thanks interceptor. That sounds like a good clean way to go about it. When the sled is running I can see gas and air bubbles mixed in running through the small lines going to the carbs, not sure if it's supposed to do that or not. But I believe only the one carb on the right is the one flooding out because of the amount of fuel that has blown past the exhaust flange mounted on the right cylinder causing fuel to spray onto the front of the cylinder. Is the "plunger" the push/pull lever next to the key switch? If so I have not noticed a fuel leak there but i haven't removed it to see in there to tell if it is.
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Another way is to simply connect the two small fittings on the carbs together with a piece of hose.
Yes, the primer is the plunger next to the key. Just because you don't see fuel leaking here doesn't mean the primer isn't bad. There is a check valve that is inside the primer that goes bad. This check valve is designed to only let fuel pass when you operate the plunger. When it fails (which seems to happen a lot) the vacuum created by the engine sucks extra fuel through the primer. This creates a rich condition.
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Gotcha, I do know the primer works as
I can see fuel and air bubbles when I push it and it's pushing fuel to the carbs. What I also found is that I have a fuel leak at the T by the fuel pump that the small primer hose ties into. If that were the case I would think that letting air in the primer system would lean it out more but I could be wrong but then again I could have 2 issues, a bad plunger and the line just happens to leak fuel at the T.
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Just putting one line between the carbs can still cause problems if you don't plug the line down by the fuel pump.
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So realistically I could remove the T by the fuel pump and then make a
Jumper between the carbs with 1 line? If I can see fuel and air bubbles running through the primer hose while the sled is running I am under the assumption that's not good and the fuel is just bypassing the plunger and the air bubbles are probably from my fuel leak down at the T by the fuel pump.
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Are these Primers really needed or will the sled work just fine with eliminating them from the system.
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So realistically I could remove the T by the fuel pump and then make a jumper between the carbs with 1 line? Yes
The primer is not really needed unless it is very cold out or the sled has sat for a long time. I have a few sleds that the primer lines are plugged as I describe earlier. If you are not aware of the problems a bad primer can cause it can make you crazy trying to find out why your sled runs like crap.
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Well I think I just found my issue that started last winter. I think the plunger was froze up and not allowing the fuel to go by and the sled was running fine on the ice at 3/4 to full throttle
For almost an hour until I climbed a huge hill and bogged it down and it died out on me. I'm assuming while climbing that hill the carbs loaded up and the self hadn't ran rite since. I did find the float bowl plug moose and leaking so I resealed the float bowel and plug and the sled starts and runs fine at half to full throttle but will only ideal for a couple minutes until it loads up and dies and then fuel comes out of the exhaust pipe making a nice puddle on the floor.
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Actually, if your sled idles OK for a couple minutes, then loads up and slows down, you're really close.
Everything has to be set just perfectly for these sleds to idle perfectly for an extended period of time. Usually you have to blip the throttle every so often when the RPMs start to drop.
I hate to say it, but a leaking crank seal can cause the symptoms you're describing, also.
71 degrees in Delphi, Indiana as I type this....unreal. I guess I might as well get the sleds put away for the summer. >:(
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I know crank seals are a must and I will eventually get around to it. The sled will start on 1-2 pulls and idle for a little bit but will eventually load up and die unless I suspended the track and run it at wot and then she runs great. I did notice when I had the sled suspended off the ground I had the hood open and I seen fuel going through the primer hoses into the carbs, i know that when the plunger is pushed in their should be no fuel going to the carbs which I didn't know that before. So I bet if I eliminate the primer system the whole flooding issue will go away. Also I would think a bad crank seal would allow air in the engine and lean it out vs flooding it out. And yes i live right up the road from you rminier and it was rather nice today wasn't it haha.
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Yep, I would try plugging those primer hoses and see how it acts.
Bad crank seals allow air to leak into the engine, but they can also cause some other crazy problems.
Oh well, we may as well get ready to sharpen the mower blades now... ::)
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It doesn't bother me that the snow is gone as long as my sled is fixed lol. It will put a smile on my face to know that this battle is hopefully about to be over lol. It will be nice to know that she is ready for next winter or my yard during the summer j/k lol. Now it's
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Thanks Rminier and Jim for the help. I am 95% sure the primer plunger was the whole issue. I started the sled and she started right up and the rpms came up and settled at 3,000 rpm with no sluggish throttle response. It was much more crisp and overall the sled is smoking a lot less (probably burning the left over gas in the exhaust). Before the going from an idle to wide open you had to milk the throttle a little bit, now its almost instant and the clutch grabs much faster. No snow to actually test it out but I'm pretty positive this was it. Thanks again.