KawasakiTrax Community
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: chaddyg8 on February 06, 2018, 05:54:01 PM
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Recent rebuild. Crank seals,piston and rings. Prob 50 miles on rebuild. Running great! I thought. Then a back fire and she bogged down and stopped. I pulled the pto side plug and the electrode was bent up. Pulled the head and top ring was gone!
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Dang! :(
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I know right!! Other side looks great. I don’t know if that back fire caused the ring to pop off or what happened but dang.... pretty bummed.....
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I am thinking coolant leak on head gasket weaping coolant into cylinder.
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Hmmm I have the 2 piece head gasket. (The good ones) also temps from the new sunpro gauge where 160-190. And i wasn’t losing any coolent?
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I had it happen on a monohead Ltd once. The top of the piston looked the same and lost the top of the ring landing and yes the plug electrode was collapsed. See what some other opinions are.
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I appreciate the reply! Thank you.
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The only time that I have seen the top ring disappear we had an air leak. Sled was really cooking too when she just died. Found out my cheapo carb boot was not sealed tight to the inlet. Mikuni boots and a fresh piston and she has been good for the last 12 years.
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I agree with mswyka, looks like a lean condition to me. Too much air or not enough fuel.
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What brand piston is that?
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It was a SPI.
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Will probably have more clues when we see the sides of the piston.
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detonation....lean/ timing imo
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Thank you for the reply’s. I will get some pics of the piston soon.
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Here one. I’ll try and get a better one later.
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http://www.dootalk.com/forums/topic/951545-piston-failure-analysis-guide/
Follow link to the bottom for pics...
This may help at least eliminate some possibilities.
Sorry to see this.....don't give up! :(
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This is why I got rid of my El Tigre's. These liquid cooled engines just seem to be more trouble than they're worth. As much as I like the look of the Invaders, I think I'll stick with the fan cooled Intruders. Just my two cents.
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This sled has been a Challenge since I bought it! Lol!!! It was one of those good deals! At only 200 bucks. After a rebuild, new drive cog, 2 new used carbs and a lot of small parts it was running!! I still think it’s something I did or missed? When I was growing up my dad had a drifter which we loved! And I always wanted an invader.... i’m a little bummed now but it will run again!!
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Definitely hang in there! I just got tired of wrenching on the Tigre's.
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Like Winston Churchill said, never give up, never give up, never give up. But I will add that with these sleds the long way is the short way - and the best way to have them work satisfactorily is to do as thorough a job as possible.
Early on, because of their simplicity, I had a preference for the intruders. But as time passes I enjoy the invaders more and more. For many years my favorite was the 340, but again with the passing of time I have become more fond of our 440. I wish there was some magic to make them work the first time, however it always seems to be a series of little things. There may be a few frustrating moments, but you are on the right track. These times of frustration are just one more symptom of Mad Kaw Disease. If you look at the number of posts that I have made I will tell you that most were to ask advice about a problem I was having a hard time figuring out. Thank God the guys on this site are patient. Oh, and somewhere on this site I had shared the story of our first Invader - "Free Snowmobile - $2,000."
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free sled...$2000 you got by cheap
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bought a kitty kat for 800, needed new track and drivers and misc,300,....grand kids better like it
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bought a kitty kat for 800, needed new track and drivers and misc,300,....grand kids better like it
Well, with the grand kids, it is 50/50. But I am sure grandpa will like it!
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lol already looking for a 120 had a 550 2 81 invaders and a 440 trail twister at Waconia, helped me get more interested
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Two things came to mind.
1. Was the engine allowed to warm up at idle before running hard?
2. Was the fuel fresh? Could fuel have separated and the engine took a drink of alcohol/water
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Yes engine was warm. Up to operating temperature. No seat on it so i make sure the heat exchanger is warm. And yes fuel was fresh and pre-mixed. I still had break in fuel in it.
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With the new pistons keep in mind the angle on the top is different make sure you don't have a reverse squish that can cause lots of problems. Just because you rebuilt it doesn't mean all parts are the same as years ago. I don't have any problems with any of my liquid engines
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Here one. I’ll try and get a better one later.
this is lean, jetting not correct, air leak, coolant issue, too tight of clearance
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imo yup
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Here one. I’ll try and get a better one later.
this is lean, jetting not correct, air leak, coolant issue, too tight of clearance
I like to add timing could be off and lastly the crankshaft was that trued ?
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Crankshaft was not touched. Bought the sled. Replaced the crank seals , pistons and rings.. Also carb boots (artic cat). All new fuel line. And drove it around a few times. Plugs looked good and it ran pretty good. First 2-3 mile trip at mid throttle there was a back fire and it stopped.
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Notice the shine on the left edge of cylinder inyour pic , coolant leaks will leave a track like that and will cause detonation . Thinking pieces of the ring bent the electrode . Is there any damage inside the cylinder where the ring might’ve caught it and curious how your head looks . Good Luck
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The part of the story that keeps my mind going back to an air leak is the part about the backfire. From our experience there is a very close correlation between backfiring and air. This thought conflicts me however since you say that the failed piston is on the PTO side of the engine which in essence has a double seal. Most of our crank seal failures have been on the Mag side of the engine. If there is oil left in the gear box then I would rule out crank seal failure.
So the next place I would look is to the carb boot. Did you use any sealant on the carb boot and carb spacer? If so, what type? And, is it still intact?
There is a taper to the inside hole of the carb spacer. Was the spacer installed with the taper in the correct orientation?
Then the last place that I would ever suspect is where the base of the cylinder seals to the crankcase. Are these mating surfaces clean and flat? Did you use any sealer on the gaskets?
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mswyak. The backfire also baffles me. It never backfired before? I prob did 20 small trips around the house just taking it easy prob 2-4 miles 10-30 min trips. This was the first (longer) trip and it was not at full throttle but moving right along and then boom! Backfired once and Stumbled. Then started running bad and died. I did use sealant on the carb boots and all other Surfaces was moto-seal.
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back fire was from the final lean out as the piston failed.....
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I've heard that final sound before. :'(
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I appreciate the responses guys! When I got the sled it didn’t have a fuel pump. So I bought a new Mikuni duel feed. I’ve never seen air in the lines but could that have caused this? My biggest thing is I’m not putting this back together and getting the same result! So it’s goin together really slow. Lol. Thanks again.
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I believe a good test after a re seal job is a leak down test. I was surprised on the last 440 I re sealed, the carb spacers kept leaking even with the use of a sealer. I took the spacers to a shop and had them flat lapped. Then the engine passed my test of 6 lbs. for 6 minutes. :)
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I also have heard that sound.....and worse
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Check your stator make sure you have 18 ohms & I seal everything with yamabond on most of my gaskets including my carb boots