KawasakiTrax Community
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Macs80hp440 on August 10, 2013, 02:54:19 PM
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I have read the manual and know there are different springs, ramps, and weights for the clutch. I would like to know the basic expected change in performance if I change a spring or ramp. Below are the springs and ramps I currently have. What combination makes better low end torque, and which makes better high end speed.
Ramps: 3 sets of F and 1 set of C.
Springs: 2-yellow, 1-Blue, and 1-black.
Also - I noticed there is a third ramp "E" listed in the manual. What would that ramp do different?
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e were for intruders.....c were the early ramps, f the last for invaders...j is notched and used on ltds and the 550 yellow stock spring, then blue[if i recall correctly]black is hardest and i prefer....
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I like the stock clutch setup for normal riding. Low end torque on a Kawasaki??? Never heard of such a thing... ;) If you're looking for more low end power try gearing down, with stock clutching. The best setup I found for drag racing is: modify a set of E's per Aaen spec, run with a red spring and fine tune with weights. This made an awesome high engagement launch, and a 8,000 rpm redline (and pulled really hard). Great for drag racing, but was no fun on the trails.
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I'm a big guy (270lb) on 440 Invader. I want a sharp engagement. I do not want smooth and boggy start. Plus, I want strong & responsive changes in the midrange (30-50mph not sure what rpm that would be). I'm not worried about maximum top end on the lakes.
I found the discussion about "lowering engagement on LTD", but it still doesn't answer a basic question: For each change in spring, how much change in rpm engagement. For each change in ramp, how much change in rpm engagement.
It looks like each spring is about 2-300rpm change.
It looks like for each ramp is about 2-300rpm change.
It looks like 1.5g-3.0gram weights are minor (50-100rpm) changes.
And, it seems, each combination has it's own shifting characteristics.
My guess is, my target engagement is around 3800rpm or so, maybe 4000.
Is this a good ballpark for a guy starting out on changes...? Am I on the right track?
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Stock engagement should be 3,900. Where is it engaging now? What year 440 Invader? What spring, ramps, bolts/washers are in the primary clutch?
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I'm taking a '78, '79, and '81 Invader and making two sleds. I have no idea where the engagement was. I didn't look into it before tearing apart the sleds. I'm just wanting to have some homework ready as I put things back together and start playing around a bit.
Springs: I have Black, Blue, and 2 Yellow.
Ramps: I have 2 sets F, and 1 set E and C.
Stock engagement 3900 is nice to know - I couldn't find that.
Based on reading posts and connecting dots: It's looking like Black with E will maybe get me 3900 or so. Black with C maybe 4100rpm...? And Yellow with E around 3600. So that is where I will start and go from there, eh.
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f is best overall [imo] with a small bog at engagement [3800] so you dont get stuck in powder f and black spring, tune with weights yes,virginia kaws have low end... at 4800 ;] ::)
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When first getting a sled together, I always start with stock clutching. This will let you get all the bugs worked out, and things tuned in good. THEN play with the clutches. Otherwise you don't have a good point of reference. You won't know if the clutching changes are causing an issue or if something else is going on...
Stock 78-79's came with E's and a yellow spring. 80-81's had F's with a yellow spring. 80-81's also had the bigger exhaust pipe. I've always run E's with the smaller pipe, and F's with the larger pipe.
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small bog at engagement [3800] so you dont get stuck in powder
I always start with stock clutching. This will let you get all the bugs worked out, and things tuned in good.
These bits sound like experienced advice. I'll do just that- stock setup first, then tinker a bit. And, good point on getting out of soft snow...
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my 'good' 81 has stock clutching, my beater has f with black......up 1or2 on spring and a little off the washers was the basic 'tune up' for the iowa concrete snow back in the day
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I like the stock clutch setup for normal riding. Low end torque on a Kawasaki??? Never heard of such a thing... ;) If you're looking for more low end power try gearing down, with stock clutching. The best setup I found for drag racing is: modify a set of E's per Aaen spec, run with a red spring and fine tune with weights. This made an awesome high engagement launch, and a 8,000 rpm redline (and pulled really hard). Great for drag racing, but was no fun on the trails.
I have noted that belt deflections is a biggey on these. I cant verify for sure but back in the day when I was a kid I had a new 4/6 and I recall it being doggy on the start ....at times I recall being afraid to approach a hill at low speed for fear of not getting into the powerband quick enough........later in life (much) after I learned how to tune these and did a resto on one, all stock, a tight properly adjusted belt must have been the only diff I can think of as my restored 4/6 I have now is not dogy off the line and can hit the powerband on takeoff on moderately packed trail!
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invaders are very sensitve to belt wear.....winner!!!!!ltds are even worse....
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I have noted that belt deflections is a biggey on these. .. a tight properly adjusted belt ...can hit the powerband on takeoff on moderately packed trail![/quote]
I think I have read that about the belt tension on Invaders and I should have the belt "as tight as possible and still idle". Plus- growing up, on other sleds, I recall using a thinner belt (not as wide) as a quick way to "adjust the clutch" and change the engagement rpm. Sometimes a wider belt was needed. So yes- I think I know how to use the belt to fine tune engagement at low end.
One thing I've learned, everything and anything can be geeked up. And clutch settings is one of those things for sure. God Bless geeks of all kinds, eh?
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Pick up a clutch alignment tool, align and adjust the clutches per the Kawasaki manual. Install the correct belt (good quality). Get the carbs, timing, and everything dialed in perfectly. The sled will perform great. But keep in mind, its an old piston port 440, this design is VERY limited when it comes to low/mid range power. Once you have the sled running the way it was intended from the showroom floor, make a few modifications to fit your taste.
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The sled will perform great. But keep in mind, its an old piston port 440, this design is VERY limited when it comes to low/mid range power.
Power is a relative term. I'm a guy who grew up on fan cooled 340 and 440 sleds from the 70s and 80s with 35 to maybe 50 hp. I've ridden a few 80+hp liquid sleds from the 90s and a few brief opportunities on 120+ hp modern stuff. For me and my style of riding (mostly trails), I've noticed most anything around 70-80hp is about right on power. Sure, the occasional high speed run across a lake is a thrill, but that is still a very small portion of my riding.
I'm probably going to be quite content with the Invader "power" as it is around 70hp or more. I simply want the most out of it as possible- mostly with reliable and smooth operation, then with the best power it can have.
After all, I am still a kid at heart and the quick run wide open is going to happen, right?
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The sled will perform great. But keep in mind, its an old piston port 440, this design is VERY limited when it comes to low/mid range power.
Power is a relative term. I'm a guy who grew up on fan cooled 340 and 440 sleds from the 70s and 80s with 35 to maybe 50 hp. I've ridden a few 80+hp liquid sleds from the 90s and a few brief opportunities on 120+ hp modern stuff. For me and my style of riding (mostly trails), I've noticed most anything around 70-80hp is about right on power. Sure, the occasional high speed run across a lake is a thrill, but that is still a very small portion of my riding.
I'm probably going to be quite content with the Invader "power" as it is around 70hp or more. I simply want the most out of it as possible- mostly with reliable and smooth operation, then with the best power it can have.
After all, I am still a kid at heart and the quick run wide open is going to happen, right?
After reading this, I am confident that if you set it up completely stock, take your time and be detailed about adjusting the carbs, clutches, track tension, and timing. Make sure the correct airbox is installed. You will be extremely happy with your Invader. Once you have it running correctly, if you want to experiment with the clutching to find something that fits your style of riding go for it! But remember, most of the time modifications are a balancing act, add power in the low end, lose power up top...Add power up top, lose power in the low end. For trail riding I find the stock setup ideal.
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Just a word of caution on the Invaders, they can run hot if you do a lot of trail riding on groomed and hard packed trails. Get over into the powder to get some snow up on the cooler occasionally. The radiator works great out on the lakes if you get some airflow through them
Ad don't overlook those suspension cross shafts. Once they quit pivoting, you will feel every bump. grease is your friend...