Author Topic: Why Different Carburetor Jets  (Read 6953 times)

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dr1979-340

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Why Different Carburetor Jets
« on: April 02, 2015, 07:56:15 AM »
Can someone explain the difference in carburetor jets.  Why would you change them?  Are there advantages to changing to a different jet?

I read the shop manual and I'm confused.
Two 1979 340 Drifters
1979 440 Drifter
1980 440 Drifter

rminier

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Re: Why Different Carburetor Jets
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2015, 12:16:55 PM »
  I will throw a few thoughts out that hopefully illustrate some things.
  There is an "ideal" mixture of air and gasoline that, when ignited, totally uses up all of the gas molecules and all of the Oxygen molecules in the mixture. This ratio is very close to 14. 5 pounds of air to 1 pound of gasoline...it varies a slight amount depending on different engine types. Modern fuel injected cars and sleds, with all of their electronic controls, do an amazing job of hitting that perfect target.
  The problem comes for carbureted engines because the density of air varies a great deal due to temperature changes and elevation changes from sea level up to 5000 or 10,000 feet.
  The density of air tooling around on your sled on a 0 degree night is 8 percent more than it was earlier that day when it was 40 degrees F.
  If you go from sea level to the mile high city, Denver, the air density drops 18 percent.
  Theoretically, if your sled was jetted perfectly to start with, you would have needed to change the jetting by either 8 % or 18 % in those two examples above.

  Two terms you probably already are familiar with;
    Lean.....More air is in the mixture than is needed to combust all of the gasoline.
    Rich.....More gasoline is in the mixture than is neede to combust all of the oxygen in the air.
   
Rich mixtures burn cooler, since the excess gas acts as a coolant..and the fuel economy, MPG, will suffer. Really rich will foul plugs and carbon up the motor and pipes.
Lean mixtures burn hotter,.. if you get too lean the heat of combustion is high enough to start melting pistons :(

  Your fan cooled Drifter is actually a fairly mild-mannered motor, as far as sled motors go. The same could be said about other fan cooled motors from other manufacturers that typically rev up to 6500 or 7000 RPM.
  This air density change, and need to adjust the fuel jetting to compensate, becomes a lot more critical as you run motors at much higher RPMs.
 Yamaha came out with a brand new SRX for the 1981 model year, with a new 440 liquid motor. It cranked out 88 HP at 9000 RPM. It had some other problems, but a key one was how finicky it was to have the proper jetting to keep it running well. It was more than the average "Joe Sledder" was able or willing to do. Yamaha made some changes, but wound up cancelling the release of the '82 SRX. They finally got it right for the '83 model year when they released the 540 cc Vmax, partly because it revved to a 8200 power peak, which was much more forgiving to having the jetting "absolutely perfect".
  People that race sleds will be looking at Horsepower figures for a 440 motor of over 100 at 10,000 RPM. You can bet they are paying close attention to the air temperature, altitude, etc.. If their jetting is off, they could be easily giving up 10 HP to the competition.
  Your Drifter...not so much. If it's jetted perfectly at 0 degrees, and it warms up to 40, you might give up a couple horsepower. The milder powerband is much more foregiving than a peaky motor.
  I think that many sled manufacturers tried to install jetting from the factory that was good at 0 degrees F. If you are riding on a 40 degree day, are there gains that could be made by reducing the carb jet by 8% ? Yes, but on a motor revving to 6500 RPM, those gains are minimal. The sled might feel slightly down on power, because it is. If it's bad enough, you could start fouling spark plugs. Then, you have to decide if you want to drop the jetting down to compensate. 
  But, in the case of your Drifter, leaving the stock jetting in place would make sense. The stock jetting is very forgiving, and covers a very broad band of conditions.
  The exception would be if you live near sea level and you want to ride in the mountains. Then, as with any carbureted motor, there is such an air density change that you do need to re-jet for those conditions.
  Hope this made some sense... :-\
75 SnoJet Astro SS, 79 Kawasaki Invader 440 (two of them), 81 Scorpion Sidewinder, 82 Blizzard 9500, 83 Yamaha Vmax 540, 97 MXZ 670....and holding...for now.

dr1979-340

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Re: Why Different Carburetor Jets
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2015, 01:28:38 PM »
Thanks for that informative explanation!!  They just don't explain it in that amount of detail in the Shop Manual. 
Two 1979 340 Drifters
1979 440 Drifter
1980 440 Drifter

rminier

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Re: Why Different Carburetor Jets
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2015, 04:50:10 PM »
 I had to "Google" the melting point of aluminum. I was a bit surprised that it is only 1221 degrees F. I suppose it can vary a bit with the particular alloy of aluminum.
  That "perfect" mixture of gasoline and air burns in the high 1100 degree range.
  That's why we tend to run a bit on the rich side...to hold the heat of combustion down....even modern cars, sleds, Formula 1 race engines turning 13,000 or more RPMs....
  Wow, lends more credence to the often heard comment.."She ran unbelievably strong..just before she blew" ;D ;D
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 05:38:05 PM by rminier »
75 SnoJet Astro SS, 79 Kawasaki Invader 440 (two of them), 81 Scorpion Sidewinder, 82 Blizzard 9500, 83 Yamaha Vmax 540, 97 MXZ 670....and holding...for now.

Checkmarks

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Re: Why Different Carburetor Jets
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2015, 03:20:56 AM »
Marks rule of thumb jetting

Lean is bad, pistons flow (melt) out the exhaust pipe
Rich is bad, fouls plugs and low on Hp

The more the Hp the sharper the racers edge (razors edge).  Big Hp and little mistakes cost big dollars.  No safety margin in racing.  If a 140 Hp motor looses 10% Hp from wrong jets (only on the rich side) no big deal.  If a 50Hp motor looses 10% Hp did you even notice (no), unless you could not clear the 10,000 ft elevation crest of a hill to make it back to your truck in the afternoon when the temps were clearly warmer by 40 degrees.

Now the rule.  20 degree F change, or 1000ft elevation change, changes fuel requirements by one step in jets example 350 mains change by five points so 355 or 345 jet.  Technically the air temp and elevation is related to air density.  Air density is all that matters.

Carburetor Two stroke motors demand understanding of jetting.  Unless you have Holtzman Engerneering system or Doo's DPM or Polaris ACCS.....

The answer really has to do with how much horsepower must you have and are my pistons in a safe margin.  4 stroke is way more forgiving.

Tory944

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Re: Why Different Carburetor Jets
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2015, 06:19:46 AM »
Hey rm...   you must have taken typing lessons back in the day! LOL.  If I typed/explained as much as you,  my wrist would either be in a cast or I'd be typing for two hours!  Then I'd have to proof read it.  Ha, ha.

  Great to see helpful guys on here...  great site!  Keep up the good work.      Tory ;)
Torys Vintage Sleds
Website:  torysvintagesleds.com

Interceptor398

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Re: Why Different Carburetor Jets
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2015, 08:28:39 AM »
The last time I went to Colorado elk hunting I drove my 73 IH Scout.  It has a very warm 400 chevy small block in it that is tuned for the mid west. It did not like that 8000 feet of elevation at all.

rminier

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Re: Why Different Carburetor Jets
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2015, 03:24:10 PM »
   ;D ;D I am pretty fast!
75 SnoJet Astro SS, 79 Kawasaki Invader 440 (two of them), 81 Scorpion Sidewinder, 82 Blizzard 9500, 83 Yamaha Vmax 540, 97 MXZ 670....and holding...for now.