Author Topic: Invader 440 no start  (Read 213 times)

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Taylor2014

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Invader 440 no start
« on: September 27, 2020, 06:27:51 PM »
Hey guys! I am new to snowmobile ownership and really enjoying tinkering with the thing. Iíve got a 79? Invader 440 and picked it up for a steal. Iíve been an auto mechanic for years and know my way around 4 strokes like the back of my hand. Struggling with this 2 stroke however. So short story I got this thing cheap cuz itís in great condition except for it had an engine fire... in my mind that meant it runs once I fix the issues. So replaced all the burnt components, new pull chord new throttle cable(s) and all new fuel and oil lines. The old ones were there for the most part so assembly wasnít too awful. Fresh set of plugs in the thing after verifying it had spark (it does) and temporarily Iím feeding it fuel through a water bottle with a fuel hose in it. First time putting fuel to it one of the carbs leaked from a sink float. So I took them apart and cleaned them and now no leaks. So ultimately my issue is that it still wonít run. Really was feeling confident in it but I can pull the chord until Iím blue in the face and every once in a while the thing will sputter but never really act like it wants to run. Checked the plugs after a while of pulling and they are wet with fuel and oil but not soaked, itís not flooded/ flooding. I know the carbs are pulling fuel because every time I pull the chord I see air pulling through the cap in my makeshift fuel tank (bottle). So a few observations. The carb boots do have a few cracks nothing major and I do not think they are cracked on the inside at all. Second it has a primer but looks like itís not been hooked up in a long time. I see 2 small nipples at the front of each carb right next to the boots am I right to assume this is for the primer? I have ran a small vacuum hose between the two for now. Also the choke knob is broken and Iíve got a pair of vice grips and pulled it out some and does not make a difference in the running situation still same symptoms. Also where should the carbs be set initially? Should they be fully down and cables adjusted to where they are on the edge of beginning to pull or should they be open some? I have heard of the crank seals on these causing issues but not sure how to tell if thatís my issue. Thank you in advance for any help, sorry to write a book on my first post but Iím a little lost at the moment. Thank you guys have a great day.

Interceptor398

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Re: Invader 440 no start
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2020, 06:58:19 PM »
Welcome to the site!!!  We are still alive and well in our little corner of the net. The enricher-primer has caused many problems due to air leaks.  My first guess at this is cut that out of the system.  We have many very smart people here who will help you thru this.  All questions are OK!

gixxer6

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Re: Invader 440 no start
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2020, 02:28:54 PM »
Air, fuel (in the correct amounts), compression, spark, and timing.  That is all that is needed to run.  Is the exhaust clear?  Mice like to make nests in them and clog things up (no air is allowed in). 

mswyka

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Re: Invader 440 no start
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2020, 06:28:59 AM »
Good morning.  We have had many sad sleds come into the shop and each tell an interesting story before they get into shape to go back out on the snow.  The mention of a fire is to me pretty important suggesting that the engine was very likely pushing fuel out of the intake.  To me, any time I see fire I immediately suspect an air leak.  Air leaks generally come from a few places including crank seals, intake boots, and open primer fittings.

After throwing my arm out trying to start new-to-us sleds (only maybe 1 in 10 actually came to us with the ability to run semi-reliably)  I made the executive decision that I was not even going to try to run an engine until I went through and eliminated as many of the variables to not running that I could.  This meant tearing down and inspecting the engine, replacing crank seals, replacing carb jets and fuel needle/seat, new Mikuni carb boots, new fuel lines, rebuilt fuel pump, new pistons/rings, and new plugs (BR9EYA).  I had to have a mechanic friend do our first engine.  After that we bought a few critical tools - clutch puller, harmonic balancer puller, bearing splitter, bore gauge, micrometer - and a lot of Brakekleen.

This approach would take care of all the mechanical issues.  Then the only unknowns to us were the electronics.  We have not had CDI problems, mostly we have problems with spark coils and occasionally the pulser or exciter will go bad.  And since we could not tell if they worked or not until the engine was assembled and in the sled, we finally broke down and used some excess bad parts to build a test engine for the work bench that was configured to test the electronics and the fuel pump.

With all that said, do you have a manual?  The manual is well written, has great diagrams and is invaluable for repairing and maintaining these sleds.  If you don't have one, send me a PM.
Intruders:  1978, 1979 X2, 1980, 1981 Custom
Invaders:  1979 340, 1980 440, 1980 440 TOC Custom
Projects:  1981 Invader 440, 1979 Invader 340, 1980 Invader 340, 1979 Intruder 440, 1982 Intruder 440, 1980 Drifter 340 F/C...

Taylor2014

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Re: Invader 440 no start
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2020, 07:25:10 AM »
Thank you guys for the replies. Also suspecting air leaks I have ordered crank seals and carb boots and plan on doing those in the next few weekends. I Will report back with hopefully good news!

gixxer6

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Re: Invader 440 no start
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2020, 10:51:32 AM »
Thank you guys for the replies. Also suspecting air leaks I have ordered crank seals and carb boots and plan on doing those in the next few weekends. I Will report back with hopefully good news!

Be careful with the carb boots, the cheap aftermarket stuff will cause more problems than they are worth.  Best to spend a little more and get some good ones.  I always use OEM Arctic Cat boots as I have seen some of the Mikuni brand lacking in quality. 

Taylor2014

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Re: Invader 440 no start
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2020, 11:56:36 AM »
Thanks for the advice!

mswyka

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Re: Invader 440 no start
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2020, 07:04:21 PM »
Thank you guys for the replies. Also suspecting air leaks I have ordered crank seals and carb boots and plan on doing those in the next few weekends. I Will report back with hopefully good news!

Be careful with the carb boots, the cheap aftermarket stuff will cause more problems than they are worth.  Best to spend a little more and get some good ones.  I always use OEM Arctic Cat boots as I have seen some of the Mikuni brand lacking in quality.

Tom, do you have a part number for  the AC boots?
Intruders:  1978, 1979 X2, 1980, 1981 Custom
Invaders:  1979 340, 1980 440, 1980 440 TOC Custom
Projects:  1981 Invader 440, 1979 Invader 340, 1980 Invader 340, 1979 Intruder 440, 1982 Intruder 440, 1980 Drifter 340 F/C...

Boomologist

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Re: Invader 440 no start
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2020, 02:58:16 AM »
Hi,
Do you have a way to test compression?

gixxer6

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Re: Invader 440 no start
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2020, 10:41:12 AM »
Thank you guys for the replies. Also suspecting air leaks I have ordered crank seals and carb boots and plan on doing those in the next few weekends. I Will report back with hopefully good news!

Be careful with the carb boots, the cheap aftermarket stuff will cause more problems than they are worth.  Best to spend a little more and get some good ones.  I always use OEM Arctic Cat boots as I have seen some of the Mikuni brand lacking in quality.

Tom, do you have a part number for  the AC boots?

They are in the Parts Interchange thread:  http://kawasakitrax.com/kawiforum/index.php?topic=11.0

32mm Carb Flange: Kawasaki pn# 16065-3008, Arctic Cat pn# 0115-544
36mm Carb Flange: Kawasaki pn# 16065-3007, Arctic Cat pn# 0670-197