Invader Restore - using three different sleds

[Macs80hp440]

Greetings from central Iowa.  I'm new to this group, and new to any type of blog (or forum).  I promise to be a quick learner.  Thank you in advance for this resource.

I have a '78, '79, and '80 invader (seed stock for project).  I will be attempting to make one very good runner (like new), and one good runner (like used).  This will be my first project of this scale, but I have expereince tearing up and repairing several other sleds.  I consider myself a moderatly experienced novice.  I've read alot of the resources on this site, and I have a kawasaki "sled buddy" helping me with this project ('77 SnoJet/Kaw SST- near mint).  I am registered here so I can learn from other's mistakes and avoid a few of my own.

I got an Invader to suit 3 criteria in my collection:  1- 1970s era, and 2- 80hp 440 (give or take a little), and 3- not so expensive as to break my kids' college dreams.  To be quite honest, I've never owned nor ridden a Kawasaki sled until recently.  I'm impressed.  To my knowledge, as for 440cc size, the invader is about as good as it gets, yes?  Maybe the SRX is stronger, but not much else, right?  In fact, the LTD may be the overall strongest 440cc ever, yes?  ...but I digress...(aka- I got distracted)

Question 1:  For the SS440 (Invader) it appears most parts are interchangeable between '78 to '79 and '80 to '81- but not from '79 to '80.  I found some parts in the manuals that are different.  My question is- how much different are these, in other words, how important is it.  Or, perhaps a better question, What difference does this make?  Here is the parts I found different between '79 to '80 Invaders (SS440):  Crankshaft- crank, piston, shim RH, washer, Pin, Bearing.  Jugs-  head cylinder, Gasket head, Holder, Gasket exhaust.  CrankCase- crank set assembly.  Oil Pump- pump assembly.

Question 2:  I plan to tear each sled down and rebuild (put back together) the best parts into one sled.  With regard for inter-mixing parts (especially motor and such) what is the best thing I should do (ex- save time, improve performance, or prevent trouble) and what is the worst thing I should avoid?

Question 3:  Who knows an Invader motor rebuilder in the Iowa area?  For now, I think I'm only going to rebuild one motor, the others seem fine.

That is all for now.  Thank you for the consideration.

Mac

[gixxer6]

Mac, Welcome to the site!  You've come to the right place...

The 440 Invader was a competitive engine in its time.  However, the SRX's were faster, but were more of a high revving lake racer.  Porting and pipes will make an Invader run like an SRX.  It all boils down to what you want from the sled. 

All of the 78-81 Invader engines are the same and interchangeable.  However there are some slight differences in the 78's.  The 80-81's had an updated larger pipe, and different clutch tuning.  Invaders also shared engines with the post-80 John Deere Liquifires (the Liquifires were de-tuned slightly). 

As for tips, replace the crank seals in every motor.  Even if you are not rebuilding it.  When rebuilding it, find some NOS two piece 80' 4/6 LTD head gaskets to use.  These motors are known for leaky head gaskets and in my experience the 4/6 gaskets are hassle free! 

Good Luck!  And be careful...This Kawasaki snowmobile thing can be addictive...

[flatlander]

Mac:

Like gixxer6 said they can be addictive.  Seems like just yesterday I pulled the drifter home and now a 340 invader, (2) 440 invaders and a 4/6 later I know what he was talking about.  Give me a shout if you have any questions.  I have learned quite a bit about the machines over the years and have a fair amount of inventory sitting around if you are looking for the right parts.


Flatlander

[Lloyd (ljm)]

 Welcome Mac

 There is a wealth of info from the guys here. And lots of parts avalible if you need some.

 The addicition thing is real!!   I have 8 Kawasaki sleds and 7 Kawaski powered John Deere's.

 Feel free to ask lots of questions.

 Lloyd

[Macs80hp440]

Thanks fellas.  Addictive indeed- I started researching and shopping vintage sleds 3 years ago.  14 transactions later I am getting into Kawasaki.  Today I've got two '73 Scorpion (White SuperStinger and Yellow TK) both one owner and clean.  The white is the third least produced Scorpion and the Yellow is 2nd least produced.  Love them, but riding them is like wrestling a gorilla on Red Bull.  They got a mind of their own and ya gotta pay attention.  First one was a '80 Polaris TXL- junk.  Second was a '76 SnoJet Astro along with my buddy's '77 SST- and that is what made me learn about Kawasaki.  Being from Iowa, I only knew of the Liquifire.

Anyway, your input is encouraging and a good start.  Once I get organized in the shop and inventory all needs, I'll probably take you up on your invitation to ask more questions...not to mention the quest for parts, eh.  I thought I had all I need with three sleds...but gaskets I will need...  I knew this site was a good idea- I'm already learning.

QUESTION:  Hey gixxer6:  I won't worry about the engine interchangeability (whoa, big word, eh).  But I am curious about the '80 pipe and tuning differences.  Can you be more specific?  Is it something I can do with the '78-'79 clutch?  Or should I just use the '80 clutch and pipe as my "best" option in the mix, and keep the '78-'79 as backup.

By The Way:  My goal for this project is to have a strong "trail sled" with the ability to pass slow pokes (buddys on Polaris) and ability to make me see blurry on the lakes (without alcohol).  The second sled same thing, but just not as perty.

Mac

[gixxer6]

The pipes on the 80-81 are a little bigger and should make for better low and mid range power.  I think my 81' sounds a little nicer than my 79.  Iirc, the only clutching difference was in the primary clutch, they switched from E ramps to F's. 

Both set-ups work very good, and IMO, it's not worth buying more parts to update a 78-79 sled.   

[kawhead]

80\81 pipes have a square 'patch' on the top rear and 'belly down' by the outlet, 3 hp gain.....dash plastic from 78-79 won't interchange with 80-81....78-80 rear suspension same except front springs on 78.....i will often not pull the head off a good motor when i go thru it if there are no water leaks at the gasket [leave head on cyl]. n c ia myself.

[Macs80hp440]

Hey flatlander- you mentioned parts...Maybe give me a general idea what price and costs are for the list below.  It doesn't have to be parts you have, just generally what I can expect to pay and maybe ideas on who to contact.  Each item within 10-20% estimate.  I'm just looking for ideas right now.   Or- maybe folks will speak up as they read this message...I dunno.  I'll be looking around home and online also, but this can be a starting point.  Thanks for the consideration, eh.

Hood:  Clean, no major blemish, original hood.  Maybe some polish needed, and maybe some spider cracking.  But no chips, scratches or voids.  The hoods I got now are decent, but I might hide some minor chips and scratches and re-paint in some other creative design...  I dunno yet.

Windshield:  short and medium tall.  Clean, like new, or replacement new.  I geuss I found Dennis Kirk with $60+shipping.

Clutch parts:  springs, and...whatever the rest of those pieces are called...  I have a couple extra clutches and I want to play around with different setups...I guess it is called 'tuning', but I'm not a big enough geek to call it that yet...(heh heh heh)

Suspension parts:  shocks, bogeys, springs, slides. 

Rear Seat Hatch:  unbroken, no major blemishes.  I'll bet nobody has one of these, right?

Seat:  upholstry- anyone you know who does these seats good?  I'm goona look into a local shop too, but want to compare original with 'custom'.

Dual Pipe:  Any conversion ideas or parts to make dual?  Nothing fantastic like AAEN, just stock but two of them.  I'm not even sure if it matters, to be honest...like I said above- I'm not a geek about these things.  Just know enough to look and sound like one from time to time...

Keep in mind- my goal is not a show-room mint.  I'm just looking at options available to make clean and "showy" to please myself as I ride, and to maybe whoo a few onlookers here and there.  Hec, who am I kidding- so far in my 3 years of vintage 'collecting', nearly everything I get is a whoo-er to everyone I know.  It doesn't take much to impress most folks, ya know?  If it is on leaf springs- it is 'really old'...and if it is still clean, it is 'really cool'.  If it goes faster then theirs, then it "really sucks"...(that is funny, I don't care who you are)

Anyway, thanks for the consideration to anyone who wants to chime in, eh.

Mac

[gixxer6]

For parts, check the classifieds section, http://www.vintagesleds.com/classifieds/, and ebay.  If there is something specific you are looking for you can put a wanted ad in the classifieds section. 

Pipes:  IMO, simply adding any twin pipes to a stock engine is not worth the effort.  80' 4/6 pipes will bolt right on, but the added weight negate any performance increase.  IF you can find a set of the factory "git kit" Invader pipes, with the porting modification will give you noticable performance increase.  Aaen pipes with porting will give you power increase, with weight savings... 
 

[jimvw57]

The 1980 used a 2 stage muffler, that is what the 'bath tub' under the muffler is. added just a bit of power.

Overall, you can't go wrong with a Kawasaki. they can keep up with a lot of the newer sleds (on the trails if they obey the speed limits) and the looks are quite similar with the newer sleds. the only drawback is the lack of suspension travel. With more suspension travel, you will need more HP to have the same performance.

As stated, tons of information available to those who ask. As a subscribing member you will have access to the manuals on the members area.

Bigger is not always better. The quickest  and most fun sled I had was a 1980 340 Invader. A blast on the lakes and a quick sled off the line. it was completely stock.

[Macs80hp440]

You guys are great.  Thanks for the consideration.  I'll be sure to start using the classifieds more as I proceed.

gixxer:  I'm goona show my novice side- what is "porting"?  I know what the ports are, but I do not know what you mean.  Is it grinding and changing the shape?  or is it adding something...  Either way, it sounds like something I need to find (pay) others to do.

Jim:  I agree about big isn't always better.  I ride with buddies on modern set ups (rider forward) and they all envy at how much more fun I am having than they are.  I am quick to point out the price difference as well.  With more power to weight, I can "trick" and play alot (I'm sure you know).  Hec, I'm still a kid and it often shows up as soon as I pull on the rope of these ol' boys.   Frankly, I never forgot the "fun" part of sledding.  I have always enjoyed the experience and adventure far more than the "performance" or "comfort".  Don't get me wrong- the comfort comes in handy around 200 miles of trail riding in one weekend.  Boy howdy.

Anyway- I am looking forward to learning as I go in this project.  So far, so good, eh.

[gixxer6]

Porting is enlarging and changing the port timing.  If done correctly, this makes for more power.   However, most times it's a trade off, you'll gain significant HP in the upper RPM range but lose on the lower... 

You're fooling yourself if trying to compare Kawi's to modern day 160+HP ,13 in travel sleds.  They are 30 years old, and are a great sled for their time.  But appreciate them for what they are.  Otherwise I'd challenge anyone to a race of any sort on my over 10 year old Ski-doo.  I love my Kawi's, but for a long trail ride, I'll take my newer Doo any day! 

[jimvw57]

Yeah, well you probably have electric start too... no wait, that's me... well I still don't  have a loan payment, nor do I have to buy license tabs or trail stickers . so there!!

And yes I do have an ultra cool black windshield on my 4/6 that is indestructible!!

[Invader440]

78 skid is a one year only thing.  You could use a 78 skid in a 79 or 80 chassy but to put a 79 or later in a 78 you would need the 79 and later brackets for the springs.