440 Intruder

[58Evinrude]

Hi, I'm a newbie to Kawis. I just saved a 1980 440 Intruder from the scrap yard for a summer restore project. I was told it was running when it was brought in last year, but I can't get it started. The gas tank has been flushed, the carb cleaned, new gas lines, new Mikuni fuel pump, new filter, new plugs, new gas, and the best I get is the occasional cough from it after about 300 pulls. Compression is 120 PTO, 150 Mag. Good spark, jumps a 1/4" gap. I'm at a loss with it right now, I usually restore old outboards, so I know my way around a 2 stroke.

The oil tank has been removed, and everything disconnected at the oil pump. I can't see anywhere that the oil injection lines would go to.. so I'm wondering if there's an air leak there somewhere? From all I've read about crank seals, they will be replaced, but I'd at least like to hear it start first, and I'm thinking it should at least do that.

The plugs aren't getting wet, but I can see a film of gas on the top of the pistons. And, when I pull the plugs out after trying to start it, I get smoke out of both jugs. I've sprayed gas into the carb, poured it down the plug holes, even tried spraying ether into the carb. Nothing but an occasional cough, and twice it backfired out the exhaust.

Can the timing be so messed up it's not firing at the right time? Any other ideas?

[greeno]

The Intruder I just resurrected did the same thing.  Took about two days of pulling before I got it to run. 

Turned out it was flooded.  Do what you normally do for a flooded two-stroke.  I cheated and used a little ether to get it going enough to knock the cobwebs out. 

[58Evinrude]

Well, I'll try it again on the weekend. After a week it should have dried out if it was flooded, but it didn't seem to matter what I did to it, either adding fuel of changing out plugs for new ones, even tried heating the plugs before screwing 'em in. Ether didn't do anything, I sprayed it in the carb, sprayed it in the cylinders. And I did pull it for 2 days.. I really wish it had electric start 

Maybe this time I'll just start with ether before I try priming it or anything.. give it a quick spray and start pulling.

[jimvw57]

A word of caution about using starting fluid, (you may already know this) it tends to dry out the cylinders and strips off the oil which is tough on cylinder walls, pistons, rings, seals, bearings, etc. Use it sparingly. A good way to clear out a flooded motor is to pull the spark plugs out, lay the machine on it's side (recoil side) and turn it over. It will shoot any gas from inside the crankcase out the plug holes.

Just another note, sometimes the muffler will fill with gas keeping the exhaust from exiting the motor and causing a no start condition. If it does start, gas will blow out the exhaust, and if you get a flame out the exhaust, the muffler may go boom.

Even more info,  The standard Intruder fuel pump is a bit taller than the standard Mikuni pump. the extra height is an anti-siphon valve. it keeps the gas from siphoning through the carb and into the motor when the motor is not running. Using a standard Mikuni pump will work, but if the carb needle and seat are worn, you may drain the gas tank.

Flooding a motor is most definitely tough on crank seals!  Once spark plugs get soaked, they don't always work even after they dry out.

Check for the big three... fuel, spark, compression.  Sounds like you got fuel. Check for spark and then do a compression test. If you have less than 100-120 psi per cylinder, it most likely won't start.

[kawhead]

imo  flooded bad.....i don't like the 120/150 compression,too big a spread....if it won't fire up now i'd pull the y pipe off,exaust side of piston/intake side of cyl can be looked at......old evies, huh?old ob's, old sleds, you've got the disease as bad as i do, poor b!@#$%^d

[Interceptor398]

If it is flooded disconnect the fuel line or shut the fuel off by pinching the gas line.  They can be a real bugger to get going again if you get gas in the crank case. 

[58Evinrude]

Yeah, I'm not too happy about the compression spread either, but it's what I have to work with for now. OK, it seems to be a majority that figure it's flooded. I'll try drying it out on the weekend, and see what happens. I do know the evils of starting fluid in 2 strokes, but this is a one time deal.. I just want to hear it run!!

Are these chromed cylinders in the 440 fan motor? If they are, what's the solution for the low compression, just new rings or rings and piston?

Old outboards, old sleds, it is a disease.. and it only gets worse with time.

[jimvw57]

If you can find a set of rings, go for it! oce you get it apart you will see if the cylinder is too bad to use. with the nikisil plating, oversize is not usually an option unless you send them in for replating. There are lots of replacement cylinders around.
If it isn't too bad, a very light hone could get you back in the running. Maybe the rings are stuck from sitting.

[bryan_damone]

Just the clear they are chrome plated not nikasil. Anyway, flooding aside, sounds like you should get more than just a cough. I agree with removing the Y-pipe and taking a gander at the piston skirts. One could be broken throwing off the port timing.

[kawhead]

i've had several flooded so bad all you get is 1 cough...as soon as it fires it must pull the rest of fuel out of the c case...imo  now take the plugs out,spin her hard,ign off 1st in case therer is liq fuel there...new plugs, 2/3 spins no choke,no fire, a small shot of fuel/either in each carb,should pop,now you know rich or lean....i'd unhook impulse line till it fires to keep everything constant.....i've got a real nice evinrude starfire 90 s if you feel like a real challende

[58Evinrude]

Once I get it fired, if ever, I'll take the engine out and do a rebuild, new seals, and see what's going on with the 120 compression. I don't think it's from sitting, it was that way last year when it went to the scrap yard. Hopefully I can get away with just a hone. When it backfired the couple of times, I'm not sure if it was in the exhaust, or in the case. For sure it wasn't out the carb.

I found out the reason it went to the yard.. to quote the former owner, "it stopped sucking gas", whatever the hell that means. If it doesn't start this weekend, I'll pull the y pipe, and look at the skirts.

Evinrude Starfire.. nope, no thanks. Too big to move around, one of these days I'll get the hoist in my garage. For now I'll stay with the small stuff, I've got a 5 1/2, 18, and 35 hp 1958 Rudes, and a couple of 1964 40 hp Gales. I have bigger stuff, up to a 225 Rude that's pushing my summer ride to 80 mph (so far

[58Evinrude]

I just ordered a set of rings.. may as well prepare for the worst

[Interceptor398]

If it is flooded leave the plugs out and pull it over a few times a day for a few days.  Then try a fresh set of plugs and see if you can at least get er to pop.  I did this with my 78 Invader and it took 3 days to get it to try and start.

[58Evinrude]

It'll have been sitting for 5 days time I get back to it.. I have more new plugs to try in it, I'll try it with no choke, no priming, and pinch the fuel line to the carb. If that doesn't work, I'll give it a small shot of ether.

[Lloyd (ljm)]

Hold the throttle wide open when you are trying to start it