Expectations of a Vintage Sled - after rebuild

[Macs80hp440]

Hi all, I rebuilt two Invaders last year and am enjoying the ride and performance this year.  So far I've gotten a 80 mile ride and a 50 mile ride on my '79 rig, and one 30 mile ride with some local play on the '78 rig.  Anyway, my last outing ended with lost spark on both rigs - I never replaced anything electrical on these old things, just the mechanical stuff...but that isn't what this is about.

Quick Story:   My buddies thought I was asking too much from these old rigs and should probably just keep them for local play and short 10-20 mile rides.  I got the same type of response from other acquaintences (bar folks) whom may not understand the concept of making something old run new again.   (or so to speak)

So, I thought I'd ask those who do appreciate this concept.  What is a fair expectation for a 35 year old sled to run before it breaks down?

Obviously it depends on many factors:  1)  engine prevention efforts were done (seals);  2) carb issues good;  3) drivetrain parts inspected and replaced as needed;  4) and after a short ride you re-inspect all things again...and so on...;  5)  riding conditions and riding style...

My Question:  So for the sake of this discussion, for those of you who feel you have given a decent effort to "rebuild" or "prepare" a sled for riding, and you are riding it under "normal" conditions and such...  How long do you expect to ride before the first sign of trouble?  Or another question- how many things do you expect will happen in a 20-30 mile ride, or maybe a 50-70 mile ride, or in a season...?

My Response:  I expect simple things to occur such as track alignment and tension, maybe a fouled plug, a loose bolt, maybe one idle wheel bearing, starter rope might break, and other minor issues.  I do not expect- blown belts, torn track, broken driveshaft, blown motors, ...and if these things occur, after repair I'd like to think they are off the list of options...(if I'm any kind of a fix it guy)  (...of course we all know how humbling this hobby can be right?)

For me, the electrical stuff (CDI, Stator, Ignition Coil) seems spontaneous and hard to forecast and prevent.  I tend to wait for it to show up before I replace them. 

At any rate, just wondering.  Am I expecting too much from a 35 year old sled?  Are all my "non appreciating old stuff " buddies right?  Because right now, this "appreciate old stuff" guy is needing a boost of confidence.

[gixxer6]

When I prepare a Kawi for running, I go through it thoroughly.  New slides, CRANK SEALS, new head gaskets, rebuild recoil with new rope, check and replace idler wheel bearings, grease cross shafts, clean carbs, rebuild fuel pump, clean airbox, inspect clutches, new fuel and oil line, drive shaft bearings, chaincase lube, belt, track (if needed), and probably a few other things that I am forgetting. 

Once everything is done, I expect a few minor bugs.  Once I get all the bugs worked out, and have the track adjusted, the clutches aligned, and the carbs synced.  Then I am ready for long trail rides.  And I expect zero issues on a 70 mile ride. 

[Lloyd (ljm)]

 I agree.  I would not be scared to take some of my vintage sleds on a 70 mile ride. in fact I have done just that with my Liquifire. I could easily keep up with the 500 and 600 I was running with.

[Tory944]

Agreed...   just took my Liquifire on a 35+ mile ride (pretty hard) and then five 1000ft passes at the radar runs.  No issues.  I think I'd be more worried about back problems than engine issues. .  I would say aside from the engine, my main concern on longer trail rides would be jackshaft bearing and suspension wheels/bearings.  Those things are easy to "conveniently forget" to check or replace.

[Macs80hp440]

Yep- that's exactly what I needed (wanted) to hear.  gixxer6 explained exactly my process.  Lloyd and tory944 evidently ride like I do (not counting radar runs).

So, all I've got to do is keep on riding and just let the nay-sayers comments bounce off.  Like one of my vintage buddies told me, at least when we break down we still get to fix 'em back up again.  Most of the new stuff is too hard (and expensive) to fix yourself.  Or, we can go ice fishing and worry about fixing stuff later.

Vintage sled guys are smart.  I think I'll try to become one of 'em.

[mswyka]

Well, hold the phone there guys.  I am in full agreement as far as the mechanical components are concerned - that if they are checked, replaced, and tuned that the sled will be good and reliable from a mechanical perspective.  However I do think that 30 plus year old electrical and electronic components are difficult if not impossible to inspect and can fail without much warning.  It is not uncommon for us, out of 6 or 7 sleds, to lose one or more pulsers, exciters, lighting, or spark coils in a season.  There was a post here a few weeks back asking this same question about reliability of Kawasaki sleds and i wrote what i considered to be a real nice reply that never uploaded because of computer problems.  But the bottom line in my mind is that if these sleds are truly reliable, why do I have so many parts sleds?

[5kaws]

Anything a with tits , tires and tracks will need work and have problems. 
You have so many parts sleds and people have so many problems because over years lots of people thought they knew what they were doing when they were working on them. when in reality some made them worse. 
manintace, good oil and good gas is basic things people overlook.   
Gas and go......

[JDmatt]

I rode my Kawasaki F/C powered JD Sportfire 115 miles last weekend.  I've done multiple 80 mile days, plus a 150+ mile day at Ride With the Champs.  I have something like 800-1000 miles on it since I did a complete rebuild as gixxer6 described.  Maybe I've been lucky, but after the rebuild and working out the bugs and minor repairs, it's been solid.

[Boomologist]

As to 30+ year old electrical it is very important to clean EVERY contact including the grounding of parts.
I usually follow up with a grease made for electrical connections to keep water and moisture out.

[harleysportster]

If you recondition your snowmobiles back to like new condition;
rebuild engine as necessary, especially replacing crankseals
replace all drive-line bearings
inspect electrical wiring
inspect track, replacing if necessary
You should be able to ride many miles in a day without any fears. I, like jdmatt, ride a JD Liquifire with a kawi engine. I have had ignition problems which ended up as a faulty cdi box. It seems that the kawi cdi system is a weak link as they age.

[Lloyd (ljm)]

 There are new or nearly new sleds break down everyday.

 Would I go on a 70 mile run the first time I had a sled running? No.   After I had some tune and test time. Yes. Would I go by myself, No. If I had a new sled, I wouldn't go that far alone. I often take a 30+ y/o sled for 25-30 mile runs, often by myself. But I do have a cell phone with me.

[gixxer6]

Well, hold the phone there guys.  I am in full agreement as far as the mechanical components are concerned - that if they are checked, replaced, and tuned that the sled will be good and reliable from a mechanical perspective.  However I do think that 30 plus year old electrical and electronic components are difficult if not impossible to inspect and can fail without much warning.  It is not uncommon for us, out of 6 or 7 sleds, to lose one or more pulsers, exciters, lighting, or spark coils in a season.  There was a post here a few weeks back asking this same question about reliability of Kawasaki sleds and i wrote what i considered to be a real nice reply that never uploaded because of computer problems.  But the bottom line in my mind is that if these sleds are truly reliable, why do I have so many parts sleds?

I've had very few electrical components fail on my Kawi's, but it is a good point.  Why do I have so many parts sleds?  MAD KAW DISEASE!  That, and the fact that I can't go down to the local dealer and buy parts like I can for my 12' Ski-Doo, so I pick up parts sleds when I can. 

[kawhead]

thats the bad on electronic's, new or old,never know.....

[Checkmarks]

Nice answer Loyd.  Piles of old vintage sleds because nobody wants to clean the fuel systems, change crank seals, diagnose a fouled plug...  Lord help the sled if a stator goes out, its dead.  The worst I can think of is nobody wants a 440 when you can pick up a 700 rmk with twice the power.  Have you ever had your wife want you to move a sled that does not run behind the shed out of sight?  Gone! Free or real cheap!

Horsepower is a one way ticket.  Start on a scooter (50cc), then get a 125cc cycle.  Move on up to the 250cc and then a 500cc is envied.  We can go further and say once you are proficient to handle the 8/9/ 1000cc sled a 440 is for kids.  You cannot be "cool" riding a 70 hp sled when 140hp sleds cost as much for maintenance (or does it?).  Now go back to the scooter, you can ride one, it will be fun, but don't let your friends catch you (applies to other creatures).

I cannot count the miles I clock on my sleds.  A herd with purpose.  One has picks, a couple with 136 tracks, a sled for oval racing....  No one sled for all my needs.

Your new sled buddies are interested in looking cool.  Old horsepower is as fast as new horsepower.  New sleds break down also EXCEPT rebuilding a 800cc Polaris cost $2500 for a new crankshaft, cylinder, pistons.  How much did you have to pay for a new drive belt; now that is a question to put to your new sled buddies!

I never go out alone except ice fishing and withing in return via foot, then I wouldn't with a new sled.

[Interceptor398]

Nice answer Loyd.  Piles of old vintage sleds because nobody wants to clean the fuel systems, change crank seals, diagnose a fouled plug...  Lord help the sled if a stator goes out, its dead.  The worst I can think of is nobody wants a 440 when you can pick up a 700 rmk with twice the power.  Have you ever had your wife want you to move a sled that does not run behind the shed out of sight?  Gone! Free or real cheap!

Horsepower is a one way ticket.  Start on a scooter (50cc), then get a 125cc cycle.  Move on up to the 250cc and then a 500cc is envied.  We can go further and say once you are proficient to handle the 8/9/ 1000cc sled a 440 is for kids.  You cannot be "cool" riding a 70 hp sled when 140hp sleds cost as much for maintenance (or does it?).  Now go back to the scooter, you can ride one, it will be fun, but don't let your friends catch you (applies to other creatures).

I cannot count the miles I clock on my sleds.  A herd with purpose.  One has picks, a couple with 136 tracks, a sled for oval racing....  No one sled for all my needs.

Your new sled buddies are interested in looking cool.  Old horsepower is as fast as new horsepower.  New sleds break down also EXCEPT rebuilding a 800cc Polaris cost $2500 for a new crankshaft, cylinder, pistons.  How much did you have to pay for a new drive belt; now that is a question to put to your new sled buddies!

What he said!!!!