Author Topic: I screwed up (but how bad?)  (Read 2340 times)

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sljsmc

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I screwed up (but how bad?)
« on: September 23, 2019, 11:59:46 PM »
So I pulled the engine out of my 79 invader and put seals in it. Now for the issue, I dropped the shims so they are mixed up and I accidently deleted the pictures I took before taking the engine out. How do I line things up to get it back together right?  Thanks for any help you can give.

Steven

gixxer6

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Re: I screwed up (but how bad?)
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2019, 07:36:07 AM »
I use a clutch alignment tool to align the clutches (this determines the shims).  I believe this can be done with a straight edge and a ruler, but I’ve never done it that way.  Interceptor398 was reproducing the clutch alignment tools, not sure if he still is? 

Interceptor398

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Re: I screwed up (but how bad?)
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2019, 07:46:01 AM »
He does.

gixxer6

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Re: I screwed up (but how bad?)
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2019, 11:59:18 AM »
He does.

GREAT product!  I've used mine countless times for many years.   :)

mswyka

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Re: I screwed up (but how bad?)
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2019, 07:03:05 PM »
So I pulled the engine out of my 79 invader and put seals in it. Now for the issue, I dropped the shims so they are mixed up and I accidently deleted the pictures I took before taking the engine out. How do I line things up to get it back together right?  Thanks for any help you can give.

Steven

Which shims are you referring to?  The ones in the secondary clutch or the ones on the two engine mounts?  If the secondary, then yes, some clutch alignment is necessary.  I have not broken down to buy a alignment tool, I use a craftsman framing square.  If the two engine mounts then no big deal.  Once the engine is in place and slid toward the PTO side just fill in the gap in the bracket until you are out of shims.
Intruders:  1978, 1979, 1981 Custom (Pink)
Invaders:   1980 440
Projects:    1981 Invader 440

sljsmc

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Re: I screwed up (but how bad?)
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2019, 11:27:25 PM »
It is the engine mounts. Thanks for the replies.
Steven

gixxer6

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Re: I screwed up (but how bad?)
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2019, 06:41:39 AM »
So I pulled the engine out of my 79 invader and put seals in it. Now for the issue, I dropped the shims so they are mixed up and I accidently deleted the pictures I took before taking the engine out. How do I line things up to get it back together right?  Thanks for any help you can give.

Steven

Which shims are you referring to?  The ones in the secondary clutch or the ones on the two engine mounts?  If the secondary, then yes, some clutch alignment is necessary.  I have not broken down to buy a alignment tool, I use a craftsman framing square.  If the two engine mounts then no big deal.  Once the engine is in place and slid toward the PTO side just fill in the gap in the bracket until you are out of shims.

Those shims aren't just there to fill the gaps, they align the parallelism between the primary and secondary clutch which is very important.  The shims under the secondary are there to adjust the offset. 

mswyka

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Re: I screwed up (but how bad?)
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2019, 06:59:01 PM »
So I pulled the engine out of my 79 invader and put seals in it. Now for the issue, I dropped the shims so they are mixed up and I accidently deleted the pictures I took before taking the engine out. How do I line things up to get it back together right?  Thanks for any help you can give.

Steven

Which shims are you referring to?  The ones in the secondary clutch or the ones on the two engine mounts?  If the secondary, then yes, some clutch alignment is necessary.  I have not broken down to buy a alignment tool, I use a craftsman framing square.  If the two engine mounts then no big deal.  Once the engine is in place and slid toward the PTO side just fill in the gap in the bracket until you are out of shims.

Those shims aren't just there to fill the gaps, they align the parallelism between the primary and secondary clutch which is very important.  The shims under the secondary are there to adjust the offset.

I understand what you are saying and can see how this could work however all of the sleds that have come into our shop have had the engine mounts tight against the PTO site of the mounting brackets and the shims filling the gap to the mag side.  Since the PTO mount has the raised flange, the two mag side mounts have to drop into the brackets and then slide right so that the assembly can bolt up tight against the PTO side mount.
Intruders:  1978, 1979, 1981 Custom (Pink)
Invaders:   1980 440
Projects:    1981 Invader 440

gixxer6

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Re: I screwed up (but how bad?)
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2019, 07:00:13 AM »
So I pulled the engine out of my 79 invader and put seals in it. Now for the issue, I dropped the shims so they are mixed up and I accidently deleted the pictures I took before taking the engine out. How do I line things up to get it back together right?  Thanks for any help you can give.

Steven

Which shims are you referring to?  The ones in the secondary clutch or the ones on the two engine mounts?  If the secondary, then yes, some clutch alignment is necessary.  I have not broken down to buy a alignment tool, I use a craftsman framing square.  If the two engine mounts then no big deal.  Once the engine is in place and slid toward the PTO side just fill in the gap in the bracket until you are out of shims.

Those shims aren't just there to fill the gaps, they align the parallelism between the primary and secondary clutch which is very important.  The shims under the secondary are there to adjust the offset.

I understand what you are saying and can see how this could work however all of the sleds that have come into our shop have had the engine mounts tight against the PTO site of the mounting brackets and the shims filling the gap to the mag side.  Since the PTO mount has the raised flange, the two mag side mounts have to drop into the brackets and then slide right so that the assembly can bolt up tight against the PTO side mount.

It's interesting that all of your sleds have had the mounts tight to one side.  Not all of mine have.  Here is a quote directly from the factory service manual: 
"If parallelism between drive and driven converters is not correct, parallelism must be adjusted as follows: a. Loosen the large bolt in each of the two engine mounts on the right side of the engine. b. Move right side engine either toward the front or rear whichever',is necessary. After converters are parallel, install shims as required on either side of mount to fill the space between the engine mount and the slotted engine mount brackets on the chassis.  (See Figure 2-77.) c. Securely tighten the large bolts in the two engine mounts after parallelism is obtained."

You can put the shims where ever and it may run just fine.  But if you want the clutches to perform optimal they should be properly aligned. 

mswyka

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Re: I screwed up (but how bad?)
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2019, 04:57:07 PM »
So I pulled the engine out of my 79 invader and put seals in it. Now for the issue, I dropped the shims so they are mixed up and I accidently deleted the pictures I took before taking the engine out. How do I line things up to get it back together right?  Thanks for any help you can give.

Steven

Which shims are you referring to?  The ones in the secondary clutch or the ones on the two engine mounts?  If the secondary, then yes, some clutch alignment is necessary.  I have not broken down to buy a alignment tool, I use a craftsman framing square.  If the two engine mounts then no big deal.  Once the engine is in place and slid toward the PTO side just fill in the gap in the bracket until you are out of shims.

Those shims aren't just there to fill the gaps, they align the parallelism between the primary and secondary clutch which is very important.  The shims under the secondary are there to adjust the offset.

I understand what you are saying and can see how this could work however all of the sleds that have come into our shop have had the engine mounts tight against the PTO site of the mounting brackets and the shims filling the gap to the mag side.  Since the PTO mount has the raised flange, the two mag side mounts have to drop into the brackets and then slide right so that the assembly can bolt up tight against the PTO side mount.

It's interesting that all of your sleds have had the mounts tight to one side.  Not all of mine have.  Here is a quote directly from the factory service manual: 
"If parallelism between drive and driven converters is not correct, parallelism must be adjusted as follows: a. Loosen the large bolt in each of the two engine mounts on the right side of the engine. b. Move right side engine either toward the front or rear whichever',is necessary. After converters are parallel, install shims as required on either side of mount to fill the space between the engine mount and the slotted engine mount brackets on the chassis.  (See Figure 2-77.) c. Securely tighten the large bolts in the two engine mounts after parallelism is obtained."

You can put the shims where ever and it may run just fine.  But if you want the clutches to perform optimal they should be properly aligned.

Thanks for sharing that.  I had not seen that part of the manual before.  This is good to know.
Intruders:  1978, 1979, 1981 Custom (Pink)
Invaders:   1980 440
Projects:    1981 Invader 440

kawhead

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Re: I screwed up (but how bad?)
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2019, 10:08:27 AM »
gixxer6 is correct