Author Topic: Pipe building 80 Ltd  (Read 2076 times)

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Checkmarks

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Pipe building 80 Ltd
« on: February 02, 2014, 01:35:36 PM »
I am getting ready to fab up another pipe for the 4/6.  In the process I need the dimensions of the booster ports.  They are in the manuals but then I do not have them.  Can someone look up the size of the ports for me.

Thanks in advance
Mark

gixxer6

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Re: Pipe building 80 Ltd
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2014, 01:56:40 PM »
Mark, check your email.   ;)

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Re: Pipe building 80 Ltd
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2014, 12:06:51 AM »
Thanks Tom,

Posting up for the Kaw enthusiast who has welding skills.  Pipe 10-11 and the work gets easier, much time saved drafting up the scaled pipe.

Lloyd (ljm)

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Re: Pipe building 80 Ltd
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2014, 04:47:48 AM »


 Mark

 Thanks for posting that.

 Are you using a stock 4/6?
 Or has it been ported at all?

 Lloyd
77 SST
78 Intruder
79 340 Invader
80 440 Invader
80 Drifter (bought new)
80 LTD 4/6    X2

Several Deeres

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Re: Pipe building 80 Ltd
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2014, 12:36:45 PM »
Stock.

Macs80hp440

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Re: Pipe building 80 Ltd
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2014, 07:40:39 AM »
Any reason this pipe can't be used on stock Invader 440?  This looks like a fun project to try this summer, eh.
--------------------------------------------
'73 Scorpion Super Stinger 440 (White - 2nd Owner)
'78 Invader 440 (rebuild)
'79 Invader 440 (rebuild)
'77 Sno Jet SST 440 (2nd Owner)
'76 Rupp Rally

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Re: Pipe building 80 Ltd
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2014, 10:57:07 PM »
Finished up the pipe.  Need to swap out some cylinders and heads and ready for testing. 

Mac, the numbers calculate out differently than the pipe that is posted.  An example is the large round section calculates out to 112mm in a regular invader.  This 112 is then directly compared to the 109.4, whats a couple of mm...  Total tuned length is also different 1121 compared to the 1131.  If you have serious intent to build the pipe let me know and I will spit out the numbers for you.  You're on your own drafting out the pipe, but then with the model I posted up it makes for simple work.  The manifold is the hard part to make.  Beyond that it is simple and seemingly two or three days work.

Lloyd, the cylinders are stock.  Stock ports or ported ports make little difference.  The pipe dictates when the exhaust does its trick with stuffing the cylinders.  You have heard of the cliche 'up on the pipe'.  The two stroke motors 'stuff or charge' the cylinders when they get told by the pipe.  The more Hp you ask of the motor the more narrow the power band.  Always a trade off. 
« Last Edit: February 06, 2014, 11:15:01 PM by Checkmarks »

Lloyd (ljm)

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Re: Pipe building 80 Ltd
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2014, 11:22:14 PM »


 Thanks Mark

 
77 SST
78 Intruder
79 340 Invader
80 440 Invader
80 Drifter (bought new)
80 LTD 4/6    X2

Several Deeres

gixxer6

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Re: Pipe building 80 Ltd
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2014, 07:07:10 AM »
Very nice work Mark!  I remember that you built a pipe before, but I can't seem to find the thread...Why are you building another?  Did the first not work as expected? 

Any reason you couldn't use a stock Invader Y pipe?

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Re: Pipe building 80 Ltd
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2014, 12:53:56 PM »
Tom,

It was possible to use the stock manifold but I had issues with coupling at the head of the pipe.  If a person was to use the stock manifold there would only be one adjustment that is the S1 or first section (its length).  Then be sure when built it still fits the diagram, so it will still fit in the engine compartment without issue. 

New pipe with new cylinders.  I built several pipes 550, stock 440 regular invader...  The issue is with the IFS.  If not for the IFS I would have bolted on the stock pipe.  Aaen pipes did not even fit with the IFS.  In the end I had to build the pipe.  This applies to the 550 motor, it was in my prototype 1 IFS sled when I realized it was a 550.

The pipes do what they are expected to accomplish and perform well.  This pipe is for the 4/6 motor.  I have another 4/6 motor but that IFS was built to accommodate the stock exhaust system, however, it started burning a hole in my cowl.  I will have to build one more 4/6 pipe. 

Besides making the power the single pipe is lighter.  There is some trade off from the choice to use a single but so little unless you are WOT radar running you will not tell in the drivers seat.   
« Last Edit: February 07, 2014, 12:57:56 PM by Checkmarks »

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Re: Pipe building 80 Ltd
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2014, 05:20:09 PM »
Update,

While the cylinders were getting swapped this time I checked the port timing to validate my numbers.  They were off, then not by far.  Uggghhh.  It makes for some interesting numbers that clearly demonstrate different pipes.  The tuned pipe length changes up to 70mm with the two different scenarios.

Looks like I am building two more pipes to determine the best solution.  In the software it requests the port durations.  It is the port durations that seems inherent in errors.  When the top ring cracks open the port is one calculated solution and when the piston theoretically opens the port is the other solution. 

gixxer6

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Re: Pipe building 80 Ltd
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2019, 02:35:29 PM »
I see Checkmarks back on here...Any update on the pipe build? 

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Re: Pipe building 80 Ltd
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2019, 03:25:10 PM »
Tom,

I am working on getting you posted some pictures.  The pipes are to save weight and fit with the IFS independent front suspension.  With investigation A person could use the tuned part of one of the dual pipes for factory tuned pipe.  The only modification is with the stinger (exit) needs to be made 21.5mm tube instead of the stock 19mm tube that shoves up into the forcing cone.  Easy adaption and saves alot of building the pipe.

A friend picked up a 4/6 and took it up to where I ride and then started asking questions.  His motor had to come apart and get new seals after he put them in himself.  He need a teacher to his grasshopper.  In the end he broke one of his pistions and pockmarked (lean) the pair.  Somehow he dropped a carberator part down the port and that is the way it works.  Luckly he did not take out the cylinder.  Now he has a regular pair of cylinders from my stock pile.

gixxer6

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Re: Pipe building 80 Ltd
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2019, 08:32:30 AM »
Mark,   So I could use just one of the twin pipes from a 4/6 ltd on a 440 Invader if I changed the outlet pipe from 19mm to 21.5mm?  What would the benefit be? 

I have been tossing around the idea of cutting off the heavy silencer portion of some 4/6 pipes and replacing it with some lighter silencers for my race sled.  Thoughts? 

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Re: Pipe building 80 Ltd
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2019, 09:44:49 PM »
 Tom,

With the software, to design 2 stroke pipes, the only measurements that change going from twin to single pipe was the dimension of the stinger (exiting small pipe).  All the other measurements stay exactly the same. 

My idea to get one of the formed pipes Kawasaki's use and chop off the silencer portion.  Increase the final exit tube from (should be 19mm) to the single pipe setup of 21.5mm.  For the silencer any two stroke silencer from even a motorcycle  (repack-able) slapped on the end to save the ears.

Yes save the weight.  Twins are a lot of weight. One pipe does the same thing as twins with the exception of wide band tuning each cylinder.  All the modern sleds come with single pipes, every ask yourself why.

The Kawasaki motors will turn 9k or even 10k and make more power at higher rpms (piston port rules).  The higher you go up, the shorter the lifespan the more narrow the power band. 

The tune on the ltd pipe is for 8300 rpm.  Yes you can use one ltd pipe and all that needs changed is the exit port pipe.  I have not cut one open yet but I will bet there is a stinger pipe shoved up into the forcing cone and that the diameter is 19mm. Cut that one out, weld up a 21.5mm pipe the same length as the one you pull out and weld it into place.  Run your motor out to 8300.  Of course use a grinder and open the transfer ports what you can.  Do you need a picture of Aaen ported regular invader cylinders?  Lastly shave your head down.  At the moment, best information, a 440 motor can manage 14.1:1 static compression with pump premium fuel.  No detonation... Beyond that race fuel >octane required.