Oil injection pump removal on invader?

[IraqvetUSMC]

So my other thread is dying out haha. I read on an old thread on this website that someone said you cannot remove the oil injection pump because it lubricates the center crankshaft bearing. I find this hard to believe but I've never had it apart. They also stated that a bad injection pump will cause it to over oil? I am having an over oil issue with the sled and want to cap off the injection pump and run straight premix. Am I safe to do this? Thanks

[rminier]

  No, you just can't remove the oil injection set up on an Invader. Take a close look at the "New to me Kawasaki snowmobile" section, and the thread about "oil injection" started by Interceptor398. Boomologist posted an excellent picture of an oil pump. You have to make sure the 3 oil outlet lines are routed correctly. As he mentioned, the one designed to send oil to the crankcase fitting puts out twice as much oil as the 2 designed to go to each cylinder. That crankcase outlet tube is the one that requires you to keep the injection system operating, since it pumps oil directly to the center crank bearings.
  Most other oil injected sleds, you can by-pass the injection and run pre-mix....but, not such a good idea on Invaders....except when adding some pre-mix to the tank, in addition to the oil injection, when you're breaking in a freshly re-built motor.
  If your sled has the oil tube for the center crankcase fitting running to one of the cylinders by mistake, that cylinder is getting twice as much oil as it should....just something to double-check.
  The other thing that comes to mind that can cause the issues your having is the dang little o-rings in the carbs that go on the needle jet and fit down into a well in the bottom of the float bowl. Those little devil's need to form a perfect seal for the motor to run well. You might take a look at those, too.
  Let us know how it goes.
  Dang snow is about all melted down here...

[gixxer6]

IMO the question isn't "Can you run an Invader on premix?", the question is how long will it run?  The answer is, not as long as it would using the injection system.  Technically, you can run it without oil at all, but you probably wouldn't get more than a mile.   

I have never ran premix myself, but have heard of many guys doing it.  I don't know how long they will run that way.  I do know for a fact that the Kawasaki engineers put a nozzle to the crankcase that will lubricate the center crank bearings on an Invader. 

[rminier]

  It wouldn't hurt to double check the oil pump cable adjustment, too.
  When the throttle is released, the cam on the oil pump should rotate fully (forward toward the front of the sled) and come to rest against a "stop".
  When it's adjusted properly, that cam will rest at it's "stopped" position at idle. As soon as you squeeze the throttle, the oil pump cable should start pulling the cam backwards. Literally, as soon as the carb slides move upwards a millimeter, the oil pump cam should start rotating.
  Be kinda careful with the cable going to the oil pump cam, it's easy to kink it if your not careful.
  If the cam isn't returning fully to it's "stopped" position at idle, you would be pumping more oil than needed at various throttle positions.
And, there is a little coil spring on the oil pump cam that rotates it forward that needs to be doing it's job.
  I really don't think the oil pump would be pumping out too much oil if everything is adjusted properly and the outlet tubes are routed correctly.
Good Luck!
You're probably running out of snow too, aren't you?

[IraqvetUSMC]

I did check the cable and it does seem free and make contact with the stop once released. When I get some time here I will go through & check the adjustment. I appreciate all the info here. The sled was running great all until I ran it up a steep hill. Thats when the oil issue occurred. However I did have old  2stroke oil in the tank thats atlas 5 years old, could that have gummed something up going up the hill? And we still have a little snow here but the ice is thick. My buddy pulled my dead sled off the ice with his F-250 6.0 crew cab diesel jacked up on 37s. I said he was nuts lol. Quick question off the topic since you guys know your stuff. After riding my brake disc itself has become really sloppy & loose and bangs around. I haven't had time to check into this but is it a quick fix? Thanks again guys

[rminier]

 Ah, yes, the floating disc. These sleds came with a floating disc...fixed calipers. Just the opposite of most cars and trucks with a fixed disc and floating calipers. Either design works.
  Even when new, these sleds had a fair bit of wiggle to the disc.
  There is a small, half-moon shaped key that fits in the jackshaft and engages a slot in the brake disc. It might be slightly worn. It a common as dirt size that any good hardware or automotive store would have, but you have to remove the jackshaft  to replace it....kinda a hassle. And it's wonderful to put a dab of Never Seeze or grease on that key if you ever have it apart...that helps eliminate any rattling noise from the disc.
  But, your probably fine.
  You might check the brake adjustment. The nut at the top left of the chaincase at the pivot point of the brake lever adjusts the pad clearance. The service manual says to move the disc forward and backward and slowly tighten that nut until the pads just begin to move. That eliminates excess free play between the disc and pads. Obviously, don't tighten to the point where you have any drag on the disc.
  The manual suggests replacing the pads if there is 7/16 inch of threads exposed after you have adjusted that nut. Don't worry too much if you do have that much. I've replaced the pads at that point before, and there is still a fair bit of pad material left.
  The pads are a fairly quick, easy, cheap job to do when you need new ones.
  So, you might check that pad adjustment, but don't worry about the disc....It's designed to float and center itself between the pads when you apply the brake. It flops around quite a bit when everything is in good shape.

[IraqvetUSMC]

That is good to know about the brake disc. I wonder if the key came loose, as old as it is it should be rusted in place. Sounds like I should be spraying the hardware down with some pb blaster so I don't snap any jackshaft mounting bolts. As for my oil issue I will check the routing of the oil lines like you stated and check the little recoil spring on the cam lever. I will disassemble the carbs and clean them out and throw some new seals in, suck out the gas that has some premix in it and run new plugs. Hopefully this helps it out. The previous owner mentioned that this sled hadn't ran in 5 years because the crank seals were bad. Their is a new seal kit laying in the tool compartment along with brake discs haha. Would you think the sled could run fine for over and hour at wide open speeds with a bad crank seal and still make good power?

[mswyka]

With a bad crank seal the sled will run the best it has ever run - right up until the point where it burns a hole down the center of the piston.

[Gilson435]

Carb O ring: Kawasaki pn # 92055-044, Arctic Cat pn# 6505-042, John Deere pn# R34812

The deere ones are cheaper, I just bought some last week for my Intruder

 http://www.greenfarmparts.com/product-p/r34812.htm

REPLACE THOSE CRANK SEALS!!

[IraqvetUSMC]

Thanks for the o-ring part number, I need to change those. Is their anyway to check if the crank seals are bad? I heard that you can spray a little ether while its running down by the crank and see if it sucks it up. Another thing I noticed after the sled died going up the steep hill was while we were trying to start it again we tried a couple shots of ether through the carb filters and the funny thing I noticed was that it would not even hit off of ether , like it wasn't pulling it through the air filter. Now someone before me put Stihl chain saw air filters on both carbs and eliminated the stock air box. Should I ditch those filters and run the stock box and could excessive oil consumption be the cause of this air filters being clogged.?

[Lloyd (ljm)]

 I would ditch those filters and get an air box!

 An excellent source for crank seals, carb o-rings and several other parts is Newbreedparts.com.   It is an on-line store belonging to a member here JDMatt.

[Gilson435]

You can use the either trick on most engines but the Kawi has the oil pump gear box on the Pto side that covers the crank seal so I dont think it would work and mag side isn't accessible either. And not to mention the center seal O-rings... It's just a good safe bet to replace them and know that they are new. Definitely completely disassemble the carbs and replace those o-rings, ditch those Stihl filters and get a stock airbox!! The air filters won't cause it to use more oil but will affect how it runs and jetting. You can still buy service manuals at the kawi dealer or I see them on ebay too. Would be a good investment

[IraqvetUSMC]

Actually I do have the stock air box with the sled, I guess someone just liked the little filters better & wanted to clean up the engine compartment. I printed off the dealer assembly manual from vintage snow it has good info but not technical. So if the O-rings are bad could it cause a fuel issue which leads to not enough fuel and over oiling? I do plan on this being a nice summer project as I have started by removing my torn seat cover and waiting for my foam to dry out lol.

[Gilson435]

The only thing that would cause over oiling issues is the oil pump. Have you read this topic http://kawasakitrax.com/kawiforum/index.php?topic=1159.0 ? The Kawi service manual is very informative and I would highly recommend getting one and reading it Are you sure it's over oiling and not just getting too much gas? When the carb o-rings go bad they will cause it to run rich( gas leaks past the o-ring causing it to flood).

[IraqvetUSMC]

I know the spark plugs were soaked in oil and I have straight oil seeping out where the expansion chamber meets the headers at the springs. The oil was straight black. However I never changed the 5 year old 2 stroke oil in the tank. Could that old thick oil caused something to gum up in the injection pump and cause something to stick open allowing to much oil.  But I will check out that thread u posted and read up.